Beyond the Wrench
How can automotive and diesel shops run a better business and be more profitable? How can we make the aftermarket and dealerships more attractive to younger generations? Each week, Jay Goninen, VP of Industry Advancement at ASE, will sit down with shop owners, technicians, instructors, and professionals in the automotive and diesel industries to have them share their stories and insights. We’ll dive deep into what’s going on in shops and dealerships and what we can do to help drive the industry forward.
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Beyond the Wrench
Inside ASE's $25 Million Registered Apprenticeship Grant
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Michael Coley, President of ASE Education Foundation, breaks down the largest workforce grant the Department of Labor has ever awarded in the transportation service industry. In this episode, he covers what qualifies as a registered apprenticeship program, how the $25 million is expected to be allocated as final details are worked out with the DOL, and the goal of funding 6,000 new apprentice technicians over the next four years.
The total cost of the ASE Education Foundation Pay-for-Performance Apprenticeship Program is $25,000,000. $25,000,000 (100%) is funded through a U.S. Department of Labor – Employment and Training Administration grant.
About the Episode
- Host: Jay Goninen, ASE, jgoninen@ase.com
- Guest: Michael Coley, ASE Education Foundation, mcoley@ase.com
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Apprenticeship is a great opportunity. The government has given us money to encourage us to do it. We beat out a lot of other industries to have this opportunity, and I strongly encourage everybody to grab a hold.
SPEAKER_02Beyond the wrench with Jay Ganinen. Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench. My name is Jay Ganinen, and I am your host. Today I've got a special now coworker guest uh at ASD, Mike Coley. How are you doing today?
SPEAKER_01All good, Jay.
SPEAKER_02Well, there's a reason. Uh well, one, we probably should have had you on a long, long time ago. And we'll do maybe another episode where we dive into your background and everything that's really kind of driven your success over the course of your career. But the point of our episode today is to talk about some pretty exciting news that ASC received with a $25 million apprenticeship grant from the Department of Labor. Pretty big news for us, isn't it, Mike?
SPEAKER_01It's unbelievably exciting big news. It's the largest grant that the Department of Labor has ever given the transportation service industry $25 million over four years to support registered apprenticeships in our industry. And you probably have heard a lot about registered apprenticeships in the plumbing, electrical, uh building trades, things like that. Well, now we have an opportunity to really grab a hold of that and use it as a tool to build our bench and attract uh young people into the trade and get them started on a great career in automotive collision and truck.
SPEAKER_02It's kind of I I think looking at this in the news that ASE had acquired Wrenchway had just come out. And then a week later, this news comes out. And as I was kind of following along throughout the process, one of the things that really kind of struck me as odd was that we didn't have this earlier as an industry, right? It feels like one of those things where, as you mentioned, the other trades have had it for a long, long time. We've really not had a kind of a universal structured approach to this. And it it it kind of, I don't know why when that news came out, it kind of struck me in a weird way of like, how how did this not happen before?
SPEAKER_01Registered apprenticeship is a great way for young people to learn the business. And we all know you can learn a lot out of the textbook, but until you get in the shop and really do the job, that you're not really going to learn it, you're not going to become proficient. And it really matches the best way for young people to learn the trade, which is working alongside a mentor, where a mentor can talk you through your the mistakes you made, why you made the mistake, which path you went down that was wrong, don't take that shortcut, you know, and really help you learn the trade in the right way. Uh, it's the best way to learn, whether it's automotive collusion or truck, uh, whichever field you want to get into, uh, it's just something that some shops have done it over the years, and other shops have not done it over the years, but there's too many shops where it's just sink or swim. We just take young people, we throw them on the lubrec, and if they keep their head above water for six months, maybe we let them look over the shoulder of another tech and try to learn things by osmosis. Registered apprenticeship is not like that. It's not sync or swim. It's structured, it's a way for right up front the shop to commit to a young person and say, hey, we're gonna invest in you. They set up a mentor, they train the mentor so the mentor knows what to do, not what not to do. Typically, you have to adjust your pay plan to deal with a mentor to make sure that they're not losing money while they're helping train the future technicians for the rest of the shop. And um because it's structured, it has the best opportunity, it's the best chance of succeeding for the shop and for the apprentice. But the system works if you work the system. It just takes a little bit of work to get it set up. So uh a lot of shops have not done that in the past, but we think with our help from ASE, help from our partners like NADA, that shops can get set up with registered apprenticeships. Take advantage of this grant money that's uh you know being made available to our industry and uh get you started using a registered apprenticeship in your shop if you haven't already.
SPEAKER_02And when we hear that news, I think one of the things that we have to be aware of as an industry is that that $25 million doesn't just go to ASC,
Where the $25 Million Actually Goes
SPEAKER_02right? Uh what happens with that $25 million?
SPEAKER_01So 85%, at least 85%, $21 million plus goes directly to registered apprenticeship sponsors in a pay for performance model. And what does that mean? Uh pay for performance, I say it's like Lee Iacoka, if you have been around that long, right? Buy a car, get a check. Well, uh the idea with the pay for performance model is hire an apprentice, get a check. It's pretty simple. If you hire an apprentice under the model that we're working on with the DOL right now, uh final details uh to be worked out, but right now the way it stands is you hire an apprentice, you keep them on the payroll for 90 days, you get a check for $2,500. The sponsor does. And we'll talk about the difference between a sponsor and an employer here in a second. And then if the apprentice stays in the shop, stays employed, continues in the apprenticeship program for nine months, then the sponsor gets an additional thousand dollars. So that's thirty five hundred dollars per apprentice that can be used for gosh, uh whatever you want to spend it on. Um, maybe it might be on uh you know tools, tool discount, might be a spiff to the mentor, might be for paying for the training, you know, required technical instruction that's also part of the registered apprenticeship program, the that uh formal classroom training for the apprentice. You could use it for uh development of your program, you could use it in any way that you see fit. We hope that folks will use it and we we'll have suggestions to help people figure that sort of stuff out, but we hope that they use it in ways that basically grow apprenticeship and make it succeed at your shop.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it which is a pretty nice incentive. I think one of the things that as we've built this out or are building it out that was really surprising to me is that you talk about that negotiation period or that that almost work out the details period. That was planned, right? That's not something where you get it and you're like, oh no, we we've got to piece this together, you know, last minute. It is planned in the sense that you you get the announcement out and then you go to work on kind of working out the details.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it it really was. The Department of Labor planned this all along. Pay for performance is a new model, frankly, for the Department of Labor uh and and registered apprenticeship grant making in general. So they knew when they uh put out the the RFP for this that basically they said, give us your best proposal. And so what we proposed was the $3,500 model uh and laid that all out for them. But then they said, Well, you got $25 million, ASE, but we want to work out the details and make sure that it works the best for the employers, the apprentices, the department of labor, the taxpayers, that everybody's getting the best deal possible. So we knew that going in, and so we're in this initial phase between now and the end of October to get all the details worked out with the Department of Labor, and then we're gonna be open for business and you know, 90 days later start sending out money.
SPEAKER_02And I I as I came in, uh, we were obviously coming in at the tail end of you know, just everything being put together, accepted. It was really eye-opening to me, and how many conversations have to happen, how logistically to lay this out. There is a lot going on, right? And I I give you a lot of credit because it feels uh like if I look at your calendar, it's Department of Labor meeting, it's a partner meeting, it's uh you you your calendar is filled up with all of these conversations. Sometimes I wonder how you keep it all straight.
SPEAKER_01This is but this is why ASC exists. We exist to be the place in the industry where folks can come together. We're competitors, you know, seven days a week, but there are certain things that we all need, right? We all need more technicians, and so you know, technician comes to work for you. Well, I don't begrudge you that because maybe someday he might want to come work for me, or she might want to come work for me. And that's all good. It's the rising tide that raises all boats. So ASC exists to be the place in the industry where we can all come together and work on our shared problems. And so I'm tickle pink that we got the opportunity, the government's gonna give us this money, and nine, you know, 85% plus is gonna go out to um the industry to support registered apprenticeships. Um, and you say, Well, what happens to the rest of the money, Mike? Well, the rest of the money it's so that we can put the program together, execute the program, report to the Department of Labor what exactly we did. You wouldn't believe how much record keeping there is. Uh or maybe you would, it's a government project, but um, you know, just the administration of it. Uh we're definitely we're not getting rich off of it. This is really something as a nonprofit, it's what ASC and the ASC Education Foundation were created for to help the industry.
SPEAKER_02I can't remember if it was you or Dave Johnson talking about this, but the you you you mentioned the the not being a money-making thing, but I I believe it was Dave that said it's the right thing to do, right? Like it's not it's not money making or revenue driving or or uh maybe net profit driving or anything like that. It is truly the right thing to do. And for us to uh truly kind of make that impact, I know ASC has done studies in the past about early stage attrition with technicians and how much of a concern that is that we're kind of shooting ourselves in the foot over and over and over again because we're not developing people at a rate that we need to, this is the right thing to do, and ASE is the right uh entity to do it. It's the one entity that can really pull everybody together in one kind of one direction where people are going in the same direction together, because if we don't do that and everybody continues to operate in silos, you're you're just treading water. You're not you're not gonna do anything great.
SPEAKER_01Exactly. And the the cool thing about this is we don't sp other than it's gotta be a registered apprenticeship, we don't specify exactly what it's gotta be, how long it's gotta be, how you execute it, how you pay your apprentice, how you pay your mentor, all those details, you're gonna work all that out. We're gonna have ideas, resources, suggestions for you, but you're gonna work those things out along with other businesses uh that that uh in your area that are that you might work with or or your uh a registered apprentice registered apprenticeship program sponsor, and we'll get to that here in a minute. Folks that can help you set this program up, but one part of the country to another part of the country, one part of the industry to another part of the industry, there's going to be different models, and what works for one may not work for another. Some model may work better here, another model may work better there. That's okay as long as they're following the basic tenets of a registered apprenticeship. There's a few basics there, it's quality, right? Um, then what we're gonna find out is the best practices. You know, this ever you know, we had people try this, it didn't work very well. We had other people try this, it worked really well. And then that way we can share with the whole industry, hey, try this, it's proven, it really works. We don't know those things today. Over the next four years, we hope to really find out a lot about what's the best way to execute a registered apprenticeship program. So flexibility for the industry, but uh it's ultimately going to be to the benefit of everybody.
SPEAKER_00If you're an automotive, diesel, or collision instructor or an educator helping students explore these careers, this is for you. Building relationships with local shops takes time, and knowing who's willing to help isn't always clear. ASE Connects brings schools and industry together on one easy online platform, completely free for schools. Instructors post exactly what they need, like guest speakers, shop tours, tools, advisory committee members, career fair participants, and student job opportunities. Local shops see these requests and respond directly to you, so you're not stuck guessing who to reach out to. You'll also get access to exclusive resources and offers from trusted industry partners, plus instructor-focused webinars, best practice guides, and templates designed to save you time and strengthen your industry partnerships. And even if your school doesn't have a formal auto or diesel program, you can still join to help connect interested students with real world opportunities. ASD Connects is free for schools. Get started at ascconnects.com or use the link in the show notes.
Registered Apprenticeship Program, Defined
SPEAKER_02Can you walk me through what it means to be a registered apprenticeship program?
SPEAKER_01Well, so you hire a young kid and you hand him a broom and say, here it goes. No, that's not the way it works at all. So it doesn't have to be a young person for starters. We always think about young people, but that's you know, it could it could be any a person of any age, quite frankly, uh, any gender, uh any background, anybody that is interested in getting a job as a technician. And so specifically for us, we're focused on automotive, right? Uh collision and medium-heavy truck or diesel. Um, but that said, it could be fleet, it could be aftermarket, it could be dealer, it could be uh any sort of repair facility. Um as long as it's in the automotive service industry, uh, we want to support it. Um the let's see, the requirements of a registered apprenticeship program. Um you've you've got to have an employer. That's number one. You've got to have an apprentice. They have to be on the payroll and they have to be in the apprentice role. So they have to fill out some paperwork, they have to know what they're getting into, they have to sign on the dotted line. You as an employer have to sign on the dotted line. Hey, I'm gonna treat you right, I'm gonna I'm gonna apprentice you, we're gonna train you, um, we're gonna uh provide you with a mentor. Typically, the mentor needs to be a one-to-one ratio, so you can't have five apprentices all looking over the shoulder of one mentor or one mentor trying to keep up with five apprentices. You know, did you guys tighten all the lug nuts? You know, so we have a one-to-one ratio so you can work side by side with somebody. That's there are exceptions, but nine times out of ten, it's gonna be one-to-one. There's gotta be uh a uh a work schedule that says, look, here are the things that you're gonna learn. You're gonna learn these things about engine repair, these things about brakes, these things about suspension and steering. Gee, it sounds a lot like ASE task list. Well, that's why it is, it's a lot like an ASE task list. It's a job description of what do you need to learn to service a vehicle. Some apprenticeships, you know, they'll specialize in one area or another, and obviously, an apprenticeship in a collision repair shop is gonna have a different set of tasks from an apprenticeship in an auto repair shop or a diesel repair shop. So it's gonna be specialized to whatever kind of shop you're running and and what kind of role you want for that apprentice. We're more of a and and you can do apprenticeships all the way up to master level, five years or more. We're more focused on can we take somebody who doesn't know anything about the trade, which is those are the frankly the spots that we need to fill the most, and get them up to where they're um a decent technician where they can do good service, turn some hours, make money for themselves, make money for the boss, take care of the customer, and then from there, once they're a productive employee, now you you know, maybe their interest is they want to go off into transmissions or they want to go off into collision frame or you know, whatever the area that your shop needs and their interests are, that you you can train them up from there. So typically these apprenticeship programs are taking somebody that knows little to nothing about the trade, make turning them into a good entry-level technician. We think most of these programs are going to be 18 to 24 months, they have to be at least a year-long, 2,000 hours of on-the-job training, um, but they can be longer. Uh, they also have to have what's called related technical instruction. And what that means is some classroom instruction. Doesn't have to take place in a classroom, it could be virtual, but it's got to be planned. You've got to teach theory, the person's got to learn theory, and you've got to verify that they're learning the theory as they go. So you've got the related technical instruction, you've got a work plan, you've got a mentor, and the mentor is verifying not just that you've spent hours on the task, although that's one way to do it. More likely, what you're gonna do is you're gonna actually have the mentor verify oh, that student now is proficient at you know, mounting, balancing, and rotating tires. That's one. Uh proficient at doing oil changes, that's two. You're not gonna stop there and leave them on you know, tires and lube for the rest of their life. You want to train them up so that they're able to do uh preventative maintenance, belts, radiator flushes, AC work, electrical work, on and on and on. Whatever your shop needs and whatever you've agreed with that student, that this is what the apprenticeship entails. So it's a great, great deal for the apprentice because they know going in, oh, as we go along, I'm gonna learn all this stuff, and I'm gonna have uh a technician that knows what they're doing, that's working right alongside me and supervising me and helping me to learn it all as I go, and I'm gonna have classroom uh technical instruction theory to go with that. So it's kind of all the ingredients for success are there, and then there's also got to be a pay increase built in. And you go, why a pay increase? You know, well, we've got to show young people that if they you know put their shoulder to the wheel and work hard and achieve when they get to certain milestones along their program, they know that hey, if I work hard, I can move up and make more money because money is the most easiest, tangible way to tell, hey, I'm making progress here. And if a person's not making progress, you know, maybe this is not the job for them. That's okay, you know, let them find out early and get out. But for the for the ones that are that have that capability, have the drive, have the interest, having them get a raise either once or multiple times during the apprenticeship, it's up to you how you structure your apprenticeship, but there's got to be at least one raise in there. Um lets them build that confidence to know, hey, I'm I'm moving forward. So those are kind of the basic elements of it. You have to register, you have to have this whole plan all in writing. You have to register it either with the U.S. Department of Labor or with in some states there's a state agency that handles apprenticeship. You would register with the state agency in that case. And then there's some reporting requirements uh that you have to tell the the Department of Labor or the state agency who you hired, when you hired them, how much you're paying them, those sorts of things. Let let them know if the apprentice leaves the program prematurely or you let them go. Um if uh they complete the program, when they complete the program, all those sorts of details. And you're like, gee, Mike, I thought I was just gonna train up an apprentice. I didn't know that there was like paperwork involved. So and
The Role of an Apprenticeship Sponsor
SPEAKER_01and setting the thing up sounds hard, sounds difficult. Well, that's the job of a sponsor. So I want to tell you a little bit about what a a a sponsor is in an apprenticeship. A sponsor is the person who comes up with that plan. They've got the work plan. They've figured out how are we going to do the related instruction. They figure out how are we going to uh and where are we going to go uh recruit apprentices, young people or people in uh in general to come work for us. And just to flip over for half a second, uh an incumbent worker, if you have a let's say there's a a porter in the shop or uh someone who's just hanging around and they're interested in becoming a technician but they're you know already on the payroll nothing stops you from taking somebody who's an incumbent worker and bringing them in and putting them into the apprenticeship program. But going back to sponsors for a minute what the sponsor does is actually puts the whole package together. Okay helps you identify this person this technician would be a good mentor. These are some ideas for pay plans for a mentor and you figure out what's the right pay plan for my mentor so on and so forth. So a sponsor can work with one or multiple employers and so one of the ideas that we have is what about like a dealer association? What about a shop owner's business association? What about a franchise organization? They're in a great position because they're working with lots of shops in the local area and they can say hey we're going to come up with a plan that works for all the shops in the area and then we'll help you get these apprenticeships started in your shop. So and then they do the paperwork. So you know the sponsor designs the plan gets the plan registered sets up all the details helps you to find the apprentices get the mentors trained get the program off the ground and kind of help follow through and make sure that everything's going okay the apprentice is showing up for work the mentor's not throwing wrenches the boss is not pulling his hair out so on and so forth. And so the sponsor then is is sort of uh another uh someone that helps keep the apprenticeship moving along so in the ecosystem then when we make these payments the $2500 goes to the sponsor the sponsor may send some or all of that right directly to the shop they may keep some of it to help administer the program or develop resources or whatever it's really up to the sponsor. So within any given business area a single employer can set themselves up as a sponsor register an apprenticeship they can take advantage of the program and get the incentive dollars or what we're hoping to see more of is like I said dealer associations business associations uh multi-shop uh multi-shop businesses MSOs fleets organizations like that that have where they have access to multiple locations and they get those economies of scale they'll be the sponsors and then the individual shops can really focus on hey let's hire the right person to be an apprentice let's identify the right person to be a mentor work with them get them through the program because at the end the gold at the end of the of the tunnel obviously or at the end of the rainbow um it it's not the $3500. The gold at the end of the rainbow is a trained technician in our industry that's been brought up the right way that knows the good culture of your shop that knows how to respect his coworkers and respect customers property and you know fix it right the first time. Those are the sorts of things we want to bring into the industry and so registered apprenticeship we think is a good model that can help achieve that. So we want to offer it up and share it with folks.
SPEAKER_02It's so much good information there. And I think that last point that you made is a really really key one for folks listening this to to walk away with which is yes the money is great and getting that $3500 is is another incentive to make you do this or want make you want to do this. But at the end of the day if we walk away and we've actually got a structured apprenticeship program set up and something that you feel comfortable with and something that is sustainable for the long haul that'll far outweigh the benefits of that $3500 in my opinion if you actually have a structured program of developing people moving forward there is a huge win there if if you can really approach this intentionally and I think that's the whole point of this right is to at least lift it up enough to where you've got something sustainable moving forward.
SPEAKER_01We've been poaching each other's technicians for I don't know as long as you and I have been alive and that ain't getting it done. So clearly we got to do something different and the government is going to give us some money to help us do something different. I think it's worth a try.
SPEAKER_02Well and I think if you look at it from the mentees part right where they are looking at it in a way where there's hope that they're not just going to get stuck on the lurac for for as long as it takes right there there's some structure from you know I go back to myself as a young technician and I was fortunate enough to go through the youth apprenticeship program a little bit different but it was nice to know that you had those goals and objectives throughout that program and granted I was in high school when I was doing it but when you look at a true registered apprenticeship program and the ones that I've seen it do do it well even before this came out it gives that young person something to shoot for because I think you know we all take it for granted and think oh a year flies by like this or two years flies by like this but when you're 18, 19 20 25 years old you look at a year and you're like oh my gosh I'm not progressing as fast as I need to and you're it like you you're and you're almost at least in my experience was very impatient in trying to get to where I wanted to get to right and so having true structure around knowing that this is these are the key areas that you have to work on. These are the things that you have to do to get there. And um you know I I just to me I I think it's sorely what we were missing in our industry for a long time. There were some doing it really well already but they they were the minority they weren't nearly enough to to do it the right way and and my hope is that out of this we we start to get some traction and the entire industry moving that direction. Absolutely this week's episode of Beyond the Wrench is brought to us by Jasper Engines and Transmissions. Okay your customer's engine or transmission has failed but now is not the time for them to trade their vehicle not without a working engine or transmission. Besides would they have kept their vehicle another three to five years if their engine or transmission had not let them down? If you answered yes, then Jasper Engines and transmissions is your choice to give your customer's vehicle new life and many thousands of miles of enjoyable driving performance. When considering the high cost of a new or newer used vehicle there's a pretty good case to be made for replacing a drivetrain component that has failed or is delivering poor performance.
SPEAKER_01Rather than trading their car truck van or SUV install a quality remanufactured Jasper product for less than your customer would have to invest in a new vehicle or a newer used vehicle check out their website at jasperengines.com to learn more about the money saving value of Jasper one of the things that we hear from time to time is uh mismatch expectations that a student coming out of a uh you know trade school program they think that they're gonna be rebuilding you know engines and making a hundred thousand dollars on day one and uh you know the boss is like yeah it's funny your your hands are shaped to fit a broom so uh you know the the boss wants one thing and the but I remember that you know uh when you're young it's exactly what you said Jay you're you're in a hurry so one thing that having a work plan having a schedule and uh you know it helps to level set those expectations of hey this person they don't know much but they're committed they're gonna try to learn and we're gonna give them everything that they need to succeed it's up to them to grab it and take it and run with it and then at the same time the apprentice sees oh my gosh this is a lot of stuff to cover but they say that it can be done in a year two years whatever and then they can see themselves progressing toward that give gives them some sense of realistic hey how am I doing here so uh I think that it's a it it's a win for both management and the employee to be honest.
SPEAKER_02I I couldn't agree more and I think it takes away some of the intimidation level too I think that sponsor piece is so key to all of this because you've got people with resources to be able to to administer a lot of this stuff right and making sure that the paperwork is done the right way and and really in a way where if you're that small independent shop where you maybe look at this in the past and say I'm not I'm not standing up a registered apprenticeship program on my own. I can barely get through my day as it is or if you're even you know I've some dealer groups that's a challenge to have enough resources to be able to to have somebody to put towards this where when when you have that sponsor enter the equation it helps in so many different regards and we've talked to so many folks that are going to be these sponsors and I I think they all one I think they get the bigger picture right they they get the need to grow that next generation of technician because there's no other there's no other choice that we have. We we have to develop more technicians. And just in general it feels like the folks that have that 3000 foot view that can help kind of put all of this together so that you know the the average shop can take advantage of this and do it in a way that's not you know terribly time consuming. Of course you are going to have to maybe adjust some things internally to make sure you have that mentor in place and that you've got some uh some of those key elements that are needed but ultimately the structure's there the support is there like they're they're really I in my opinion you're kind of taking away a lot of the excuses to not have an apprenticeship program.
SPEAKER_01Well and and we talked earlier uh that you know the electrical trades have this construction has this uh a lot of other trades have this and I've long said that we're not competing with each other we're not competing with the shop down the street we're not competing with diesel versus automotive we're competing with all those other skill trades welding and construction and HVAC and everything all the places that you know they would love to take our students that know which end of a screwdriver's up and know how to turn the DVOM on they'll grab those folks in a heartbeat and take them and we'll never see them again. So we're really competing with these other skill trades and other skill trades are showing these young people hey here's a career path not just young people but just people in general here's a career path here's where you can be in two three five years this is the kind of money you can be making here are the different career opportunities that are available to you and so you don't have to map out the whole thing for a you know 17 19 21 year old show them where they can be in two or three years and have them talk to other technicians young technicians that have gone down that path and then they'll they can really see themselves in that we have that's our best chance to recruit the the really good and we know you've got to be a critical thinker you've got to be smart about electrical and other things that you can't see and so um we need the best students so the the best people we can get to come be technicians uh to work on these vehicles and they can make a great living doing it and they don't have to sit in a classroom for four years to get a degree to wait to start making money. This is apprenticeship is all about that earn while you learn so they can make money they can learn a great trade that they can take anywhere in the country and get a job tomorrow we just need to get the word out and uh you know have a program in place that competes favorably with all these other skill traits because they they'll take those students in a heartbeat if we don't.
SPEAKER_02Well and I think that competition is just getting revved up too when when you look at the need for these data centers and what they're wanting for that skill set, right? They want the plumbers they want the electricians and there's a lot of people with a lot of money that want those things right so we it is going to be a fight for this young skilled talent or any skilled talent as you mentioned earlier it doesn't matter what age like we just need skilled talent. I do think that's where it pairs really nicely we we had talked about uh ASE's acquisition of us at Renchway and a lot of the data pieces that we had really started to build out I think are really important to pair with this as we move forward because we do need more salary transparency. We do need to be able to tell a story to a young person or their parent as to why this is an intriguing industry to to to come into and a lot of times you and I met with the Bureau of Labor Statistics and tried to understand their model a little bit about on on how they come up with salary data. It's not overly accurate. So how do we really kind of paint that true picture so that student that comes into our industry doesn't think they're gonna make $100,000 a year right off the bat, but does see that nice trajectory, that nice path to get there by pairing salary transparency and data that we're able to accumulate now that we're a part of ASE and then pairing that with a true apprenticeship program, now you're actually starting to have some structure to where you you could have some success and have a fighting chance when you're in talking to that parent or that that educator or that administrator at uh at a school that this is a a fantastic career path because otherwise if we just if we leave that to the the general public to do their own research on it, you know, you you're gonna look at the Bureau of labor statistics data you're gonna look at the initial investment and tools that you're gonna need to get into the industry. You're gonna read all the Facebook posts and the Reddit groups that are talking negatively about the industry because the negative always seems to carry the weight on a lot of this stuff. So to me that is where all of this kind of timing is really unique and and really cool that it's coming together because now we're finally as an industry kind of putting something that is tangible and I think is something that can stand the test of time together to where you are actually chipping away at this rather than talking about it.
SPEAKER_01Well you know AFC has been around for 50 plus years and a lot of folks just look at it as oh those old paper pencil tests um and it was it was always more than the paper pencil test but really I think with AFC plus wrench way together uh we're really turning it up to 11 and really focusing on being a valued partner for the for the entire industry where what I said earlier we can all come together with our shared needs and AFC can be that tool for the industry to help us solve our human resource problems and you know help us be a better employer and better steward of all of our resources uh better use of our time and just help us be more successful as people across the board and I think that's that's ultimately what ASC is all about it's it's all the you know million plus certified technicians that came before the hundreds of thousands of people that are certified technicians today all the shop owners uh that support that whole ecosystem and um ultimately in service of our customers because you know we we are committed to taking care of our customer making sure that they can get to work they can get to school they can get wherever they need to go safely and on time the car is going to start it's gonna get there it's not gonna break down on the side of the road um fix strike the first time all the things that the reason that we got into service you know it's it's called automotive service for a reason we're in the service business we serve people well and as we're recording this we're kind of you just a few weeks removed from the uh ASC instructor training conference that was held in Frisco Texas and one of the things both you and I were on stage down there and I thought what what I took away from that conference as a whole was just some genuine excitement you know we we had just announced the the the grant you had all of these instructors and educators down there and oh by the way we did the ASC board meeting at the same time so you had industry and education in the same conference center.
SPEAKER_02I I I said I I I came away from that feeling so enthused and so you know every partner conversation we had was you know I I think similar themed in that people were ready to put the swords down and really start to work together on this and when you look at that apprenticeship grant and the ability for that to kind of have that pull of everybody coming together but then just in general it it felt different. It was a huge uptick in attendance this year at the conference it just there was so much positive to take out of that and you know I I don't mean to kind of talk away from the apprenticeship grant but it was all kind of this buildup and then this celebration at this instructor conference where things really seemed to have a different feel and maybe that was just me but I'd be interested in kind of your opinion there.
SPEAKER_01So you know automotive instructors um just to talk philosophically for a second they've got the toughest job in the business I think um they've got you know they got to teach all day and then you know I I make fun of English teachers Shakespeare hadn't changed in 300 years and the construction guy I'm sorry two by four has gotten skinnier over time but it's still a two by four you know it's 12 penny nail is still a 12 penny nail the stuff we work on changes all the time and so the automotive the collision the the diesel instructors they have to continually update their knowledge at the same time they're teaching it to a whole new group of students who you know about the time that you get the students to where they they they get it they graduate and then you have a whole new crop of students that don't get it. So you got to start all over so those guys they are pushing a rock uphill and thank goodness for all the industry partners that we have that I don't pay them a nickel to come there spend a whole week in you know sharing what they know with all of our instructors they come of their own volition they share their information it's a perfect example of what ASC was created for for the industry to come together to help support the future which is the instructors that that go out there and and train these young people to come into our industry and so um it was it was a fantastic event and there was a lot of positive energy um the again um you know the the instructors were excited there's always a new school year around the corner and a lot of cool technology that was shared and and best practices and just the the networking that goes on and the fact that the instructors could see oh the ASC board's here and um you know board members could talk to instructors and hear what it's like out there in the field it it was a great opportunity just for sharing information all around.
SPEAKER_02Yeah I I it it was such a fun time in general uh kudos to the ASC team for putting together a a heck of a good conference and I it's one of those where you you feel like we can continue to build on it. There there was just uh the first time having it at the same time as the board meeting really went over well. And you know kind of going back to the apprenticeship side we had a lot of conversations with those potential sponsors of the program there laid out some of the you know kind of just an update right which is really what we're doing today with this is I I I want to maybe talk through that part of that of you know an update
Grant Update & Key Dates Ahead
SPEAKER_02of where we stand with things and maybe some key dates that we want to keep in mind uh in and really kind of lay this out in a way where maybe we follow up with another maybe more of a short form podcast where we can kind of continually update folks on where we stand with things. But we're we're still kind of in that working out The details period right now, aren't we?
SPEAKER_01We are. We're working out details with the DOL, but we feel like things will be firmed up pretty well by the end of September. And then it's just a matter of you know putting the top coat on it and the clear coat and away we go. So we're we're telling folks right now that by the end of September we'll give you an update and we can do a few more little podcasts as we go along here. Um although it'll we'll blink and the end of September will be here. But um so so folks that fill out the form on the website, and we'll give you the info for the website here in a minute. Um we'll keep that's the best way to get on the list so that we can keep you up to date on what's going on here. In the meantime, if you're curious about you know what does it take to get an apprentice registered apprenticeship program put together and up and running, and what does a sponsor look like and those sorts of things, reach out to us. Um we're not we're not having one-on-ones with everybody just yet. We're we're still getting the staff and all the resources together to do all that. So we would just ask for a little patience while we do that. But start thinking about it now because what's gonna happen then, and once we firm up those details at the end of September, we're gonna go through the month of October, like I said, putting on the top coat and the clear coat, and then it's gonna go live at the end of October. So, and you know, at that point you can start saying we've got a registered apprenticeship, we hired an apprentice. As long as the apprentice was hired after July 1st, that's the official start date of the program. Uh as long as they were hired after July 1st of uh 2026, then they're eligible to get the payment after they've been on the payroll for 90 days. So we'll start onboarding people, we'll start qualifying people, we'll start connecting people with potential potential sponsors, we'll start helping people get those registered apprenticeships started up. The program is supposed to run for four years. We got $25 million, give it out $3,500 at a time. It'll take a little while to work through that, but at the same time, you don't want to wait till year three and say, hey, can I get in on that? And then come to find out, ah, we ran out of money. So the program's gonna run for four years or until we give all away all the money. We're not gonna give it all away in the first six months. So I'd say now is the time to start looking about it, looking at it, thinking about it, staying, you know, tuned in to what we're doing and and our announcements as we go along here.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I couldn't agree with you more there that based on the conversations we've had so far, there has been a lot of interest, a lot of interest from some some big players too, right? People that want to really get this thing kicked off in a big way. And so I say that just to tell you don't sit on your hands here. This is one thing when as you're following this along, we'll do our best as ASE to keep you updated. But this isn't one of those things where you're gonna want to sit around and wait. This is something you do want to get after as soon as possible. And we'll try to make that as easy as we can for you as you're coming in. And and if you are that that shop that's maybe looking for a sponsor, stay tuned. I think you you might have some options. I will say we we we need to give a shout out to Megan and the team at NADA as well. They they've done a fantastic job in helping us out here. Uh, I don't know if you have anything to add there, Mike, but their Apprentice in the Box uh program that they've got, really, really good stuff. Uh, they were instrumental in all of this.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. So NADA um really helped us put this whole grant application together. And so they're a partner in the program. That said, of course, it is available to everybody in the industry. You don't have to be an auto dealer. You don't, you know, you can be in collision, you can be in diesel, you can be a fleet, you can be an independent, you can be a franchise, whatever. But uh we're hoping that a lot of dealers, and in fact, some of the OEMs have already indicated that they're gonna strongly encourage their dealers to get involved in this. So uh we're looking forward to that. And the folks at NADA, furthermore, have created this apprenticeship in a box. It's a uh whole bundle of free, free, free, free resources that you can get access to. There's a link to that off of our apprenticeship page, and so you can go in there and um get access to their free resources, look around. It might you know uh bring up some questions in your mind, shoot those to us. We're we're happy to talk about that.
The Goal: 6,000 New Apprentices
SPEAKER_02I want to talk about kind of the BHAG, right? The big hairy audacious goal. How how many apprentice uh how many apprenticeships do we want, or how many apprentices are we looking for at the end of the day?
SPEAKER_01Well, so we've got enough money that we should be able to fund around 6,000 apprentices.
SPEAKER_02So that's a lot of apprentices.
SPEAKER_01It's not, yeah. It's it's you know, it's it's not the whole pie that the industry needs, but I think it might be a good start. It's a good place to start because once once you're set up to do it, now you know you you've got the formula, you you know what works and you know what doesn't work, and we're hoping that it becomes a way that the the industry really grabs a hold of to grow the bench because we know just poaching the technician from the shop down the street doesn't work. It doesn't work in the short term and it doesn't work in the long term. We need a strategy that we can use to build our bench, and this is you know you have technicians, they're gonna retire in five years, in ten years, in fifteen years. Inevitably, some you know, toolboxes all have wheels. Uh inevitably, somebody's gonna load it up and leave. So you need to be building the bench, you need to be thinking about that. And certainly, I'm not planning for my business to be static. I want to grow my business. So, you know, uh, how many more technicians am I gonna need in order to grow my business? And so thinking about all those things, sitting around and and wondering where the next technician's gonna come from as opposed to doing something about it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I it's funny that you say that. I always talked about that on how fast five years ago is when you're in a leadership position where Bill will come tell you that he's gonna retire in five years, and we're pretty guilty of waiting till four years, 364 days in to have start planning for Bill's replacement. So being able to have some ability to forecast how things are going to go and and and have some actual sustainable system, because if our sustainable system is just continually trying to hire master level technicians, you're not replenishing. You're not you're not kind of filling, you're not filling the funnel. And I do think will they all work out? No, they won't. And that's perfectly fine. Like it maybe it ends up in creating more service advisors or service managers or even salespeople at some level. It's just a matter of getting people exposure to what it is we do, putting some structure around it in a way that uh gives a young person or any person, I gotta I gotta change my mind on that, or I gotta change the way I say that, any person to give them a roadmap to success and and have some things to strive for in not so distant future type of scenarios. So I uh I think this is the this is truly the way to to fix this thing. And will it happen overnight? No. But can we actually start to make a dent in this thing rather than talk about it? I sure hope so. I really, really hope this is the the positive path forward. I do know there are, you know, we talked about this in the board meeting. There are a lot of eyes on us as an industry. I know somebody said uh in our board meeting, well, there's a lot of eyes on ASE and how they're going to handle this. And I think Dave came back in and said, correction. There's a lot of eyes on our industry because this is a true industry project. This is not just an ASE thing, this is industry as a whole. How do we come together? How do we actually implement change for the future? Because without it, we're just gonna find ourselves in a deeper and deeper hole. So we need to, we need to do something different. I think now is the time to do it.
SPEAKER_01Well, and you know, the the Department of Labor, there was, there were, I promise you, there were a lot of people competing from a lot of of different industries for these uh pay-for-performance apprenticeship dollars. And those dollars could have easily gone. They had a grant program a few years ago in the restaurant association. I I love good food, I love my friends in the restaurant business, but the restaurant association won a big apprenticeship grant. And I'm like, we need more sous chefs? I don't think so. We need more technicians. So, you know, I'm a little biased, but so I was a little ticked off when they got that. And so there was tons of competition for this, and we got the notification. I thought, finally, finally, we get a seat at the table. Finally, they recognize that transportation is critical to our economy, it's critical critical to national security, if you think about it. You know, if the trucks don't roll and the food doesn't go to the grocery store, we got a real problem here. So um the automotive industry has been handed a huge opportunity, and we're foolish if we do not, as group, take advantage of that. And guess what? ASC, we're here to facilitate, we're here to help, but you gotta make it happen. You know, the the the the folks that are doing the job every day, um you've got to reach out and grab a hold of this opportunity and make it real for the whole industry. So without the the industry getting behind us and supporting this, it's gonna go nowhere. And then, yeah, and then and then the DOL or you know, anybody else in the government's gonna say, well, we gave you guys a chance and you didn't do anything with it. So um I really want to strongly encourage people to get behind this. You know, are you gonna have questions? Uh, you know, are there gonna be naysayers? I don't doubt it, you know. But the people in this industry got to where we are, not by giving up easily easily, but by working hard and making things work. So uh apprenticeship is a great opportunity. The government has given us money to encourage us to do it. Uh, we beat out a lot of other industries to have this opportunity, and I strongly encourage everybody to grab a hold of it.
SPEAKER_02That's well said, Mike. And now, being the amateur that I am in terms of talking about a grant, there is a disclosure that we need to read, isn't there? Or a disclosure about the grant itself?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um if it I'll just tell you, um, number one, if you want to get on our mailing list, we won't spam you or anything, but if you just want to keep up with what's going on with the apprenticeship, come to aseducationfoundation.org. I know it's a mouthful, so lots to type. Aseeducationfoundation.org. All together, no spaces. Um, and then go to about us. There's a drop down at the top, about us, and there's a page on apprenticeship. Or you can go to ascfoundation.org slash apprenticeship. Either one will get you there. Uh, and that's got information about the program, basic information, and a little form that you can fill out so that you're on our mailing list and we can keep you updated on what's going on. And then anytime we talk about the program, we're uh obligated by our friends at the Department of Labor to tell you that the total cost of the ASC Education Foundation Pay for Performance Apprenticeship Program is $25 million of your taxpayer dollars. And that entire $25 million or 100% is funded through a U.S. Department of Labor Employment and Training Administration grant. So we thank all of you who pay your taxes, because that's helping to support it. And we thank our friends at the Department of Labor who picked us over all those other people.
SPEAKER_02Well, Mike, it's been great talking through this with you. I know you have had visions of stuff like this for a long time, right? And I think being able to see it come together, don't want to put words in your mouth, but it has to be pretty cool to see a lot of this uh starting to really form.
SPEAKER_01It will be really cool when we see apprentices, apprentices working in the shop and shops sponsors getting these payments and seeing the cool put pay plans that are put together, the tool incentives that are put together, the related instruction plans that are put together. When you talked about the big hairy audacious goal a minute ago, you know, we're in the business of changing lives. You take somebody that doesn't know what they want to do, they're not really going anywhere, they worked at Starbucks, they worked at Target, they don't know what they want to do with their life, and then all of a sudden they get exposed to automotive service or collision or working on trucks. And it's like, hey, I like this, this is cool. Hey, I like solving problems. Hey, I like I get a feeling of pride when I fix something and I see it go down the road. Um, and so if we can find those people and give them a spark and get them started, we're changing their life. We're changing the trajectory of their life. We're we may be changing the economic fortunes of their entire family. And so seeing young people having their lives changed it doesn't have to be young people, it could be any people. Um, but seeing people have their lives changed, that's what this is really all about, and that's what makes it really cool. So I'm really looking forward to those success stories, and uh we'll we'll be out talking to people to hear those success stories and document those success stories and share all of those great success stories.
SPEAKER_02Well said, my friend. Thank you for joining the show. We'll do it again here sometime soon to update everybody, but uh appreciate all of your hard work and and and putting all of this together. It's not a small project whatsoever, and and it's uh it's ambitious and I think exactly what the industry needs. So thank you for everything you've done so far and can't wait to see what we can do with it moving forward.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Thanks, Jay.
SPEAKER_02Uh that wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode, please show your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews on Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, did you know Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by the Wrenchway team? Wrenchway is an online community dedicated to promoting and improving automotive and diesel careers. We help technicians find the best jobs to work at, and we also help auto, diesel, and CTE instructors get more support from local industry. You can learn more by visiting wrenchway.com.