Beyond the Wrench
How can automotive and diesel shops run a better business and be more profitable? How can we make the aftermarket and dealerships more attractive to younger generations? Each week, Jay Goninen, VP of Industry Advancement at ASE, will sit down with shop owners, technicians, instructors, and professionals in the automotive and diesel industries to have them share their stories and insights. We’ll dive deep into what’s going on in shops and dealerships and what we can do to help drive the industry forward.
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Beyond the Wrench
Turning Repair Orders Into Content With AI
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Joe Toscano, Founder & CEO of Service Stories, returns to show how his AI platform turns everyday repair orders into ready-to-publish content. In this episode, he covers why he built Service Stories after burning out on social media himself, why voice and AI search are changing how customers find shops, and the growing impact of your shop’s Google Business Profile.
About the Episode
- Host: Jay Goninen, ASE, jgoninen@ase.com
- Guest: Joe Toscano, Service Stories, joe@servicestories.com
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We help service-based businesses turn their daily work, in the case of an Opshop, turn your repair orders into content that generates more leads.
SPEAKER_02Beyond the Wrench with Jay Ganinen Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench.
SPEAKER_03My name is Jay Ganinen, and I am your host. On today's show, we welcome back Joe Toscano. Joe has a lot of things going on that we're going to talk through today. We were lucky enough to have him on the show. Joe, I can't recall how long ago. Was it probably a year ago or so? It's it's been a minute since we've had you on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it would have been at least a year, I think. It might have been closer to a year and a half, even. It's been a while, but uh a lot of things have changed since then. The world's changed, what we've been doing has changed. So uh definitely time for an update.
SPEAKER_03Well, it time for an update. You continue to evolve with everything that you're doing, and it is uh at times when I'm talking to you, I'm always learning something. Uh, I actually just learned that I should be drinking warm water or hot water uh as a way to uh to to help my uh my body out. Uh so uh always learn something from you, and it's it's a pleasure to have you back on.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you for having me. And uh we we can both thank my wife for that tip. That's uh everybody try it out. Morning hot water with lemon, feel your body different. It's gonna be great.
SPEAKER_03Uh all right, we're we're gonna give that a shot. Now, talk to us a little bit about what's changed. Uh I mean, you are always evolving, you were always learning. And uh, I think we, as we talked about on the last show, your involvement with the family shop it might have shifted a little bit here, but just in general, uh, you've had a lot of stuff
Catching Up with Joe
SPEAKER_03going on. So why don't you bring us up to speed on everything going on in Joe's life?
SPEAKER_01Sure, yeah. Well, for everyone who didn't catch the last episode, um, I'm a tech guy who got pulled in the automotive world because my family's been running an auto shop for 25 years now. Uh, I used to work out at Google, did software design development. I left, wrote a book, did a whole like speaking tour on how to make tech safe. And at that par that time, my parents decided I was finally qualified enough to help them do their marketing. And uh, so that's how I got into the auto world. I uh I helped them to digitally transform their business. That's SOPs, that's marketing, that's finance, everything became digitized and streamlined. We grew from three to eleven million dollars a year in revenue. Um, and then about a year and a half ago, shortly after you and I were on that first podcast, uh, I had started on a software product that we're now running called Service Stories because I was trying to help them get into AI search, AI answers. And that has taken off. So yeah, you're right. Um, I'm now no longer with the family business. Um, I'm doing this software full time, now working with other shops on top of, you know, HVAC plumbing, trucking logistics. We even have like chiropractors, it's really cool. It's you know, basically the whole point is we help service-based businesses turn their daily work in in the case of an auto shop, turn your repair orders into content that generates more leads. So you do your work, the AI sits in the middle and reads and checks into what's going on, and it creates content without you having to think from a blank page, you know.
SPEAKER_03I I I had the pleasure of walking through the platform with you, and what you've built is really, really cool. And I think it does address a pain point that a lot of shops see in that they are, I think all shops know the the power of content, or they know at least of the power of content and and really what kind of impact that can have on your business. Yeah, but a lot of a lot of shops are like me, where I'm probably not the most creative person in the world, or maybe not going to give the time needed to to really produce kind of that organic content on on the socials that I think is what really moves the needle. It's what kind of helps educate customers, it's what helps just drive more awareness to your brand as a whole. The tool that you've created makes that really, really simple, right? Uh, you you don't have to think of it, you're already doing this stuff.
SPEAKER_01That's my goal. You know, that that was one of the biggest priorities I was taking care of in the in the shop. And um, in all honesty, I was trying to automate myself out of a job. I was so sick and tired of doing social media. Oh my God, I hated it, but I knew we had to do it, right? Um, blogs, like I've written for years. I I have an English minor, I write for Forbes currently, you know, about AI and I'm good at it, but like to start from scratch every week, I was just banging my head, right? And then we've had um agencies in the past, and you know, when you plug in an agency, they effectively they turn around almost every week and they're like, Hey, what are you doing this week? Hey, upload this, hey, send me that. It's like I'm almost doing the work myself, but I'm paying a thousand bucks or three thousand bucks a month to like tell you what to do. And I thought, you know, the the insight I had, I was sitting at the shop and trying to figure out how we get in AI search. And then I was just watching the guys work, right? And I, and every day a customer comes in the door, my service writer goes out, greets them, he goes and takes photos of the car, he asks them what's going on. We we get all their concerns written down. And then, of course, as always, you know, you make an estimate, it's got the parts, it's got the what do you do, all that stuff. I was like, oh my God, why do I need to try to think of what we're doing? The story's right there. That's what we do every day. How can I just tell that story? Not only is it valuable because I have the customer's real concern, which we can flip into a question that mirrors what they're asking ChatGPT now, but also it's authentic and it's unique to me. And the photos are right there. I just gotta move them over. You know, it's like, oh, that's what I should have been doing the whole time, you know? Um, and so that's what we built into a product. And, you know, the question we always get asked is like, couldn't I do this with Chat GPT? Like, why do I need a service to do it? Another software, right? Another thing. And the answer is you don't have to work with us to do it. And I actually wrote a blog about how to do it without us. Um, I think the the problem most people run into when they do that is that they then have to maintain this thing, right? They go build it up, they maybe make some skills and they speed up and then they realize, like, now I'm using this thing I made, and it doesn't get consistent outputs because it's that's what AI does, right? It's it's called drift. You know, you can make a skill, it's good for the first pass, and then it it breaks down over time. You have to redo things, and and beyond that, you know, it's not all integrated, it's not seamless. So then you're spending more labor hours, and and ultimately what you'll find in the article. I'm I'm happy to share that because I hope you know, if you want to do this, you don't want to, you know, work with us. I of course I'm promoting here, but like go ahead and I'll give you the instructions. It's just usually what you're gonna find is it's gonna cost you two to five X the amount of time, which your time is worth a lot of money.
SPEAKER_03I think we undervalue that at times, right? Uh especially from the shop's perspective of the value of a leader's time within a shop. And even if you're a bigger shop and having a marketing team that is doing some of this stuff, like you probably you know, I see so much value there because so many of us are pulled in a million different directions. And could you do some of it? Sure. Uh I I would still I would still argue that you it most people aren't proficient with it, right? They're they know enough to go on to chat GPT and ask some things or uh have started to play around with Claude. But I I think they're for the most part, this is your world, this is your expertise, this is what you've lived in for many, many years. Uh, and to build something specific to our industry, I I think is is great. And the one thing I'll say as you took me through the platform, it's really interesting to kind of get your uh almost brain dump as you're talking through how you built it and why you built certain parts of it. Yeah, and and kind of your thinking is just different, I think, than a lot of folks, in that this is this is your life and and this is how you're building it is to to be a benefit to all of us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it it literally is the epitome of my career in in almost every sense of the word, right? Like when I was consulting for Google, uh I was doing both marketing and product work. And uh on the marketing side, a couple of the the products, the Google products I worked on was Google AdWords doing their marketing website, which my boss came to me and imagine this, I'm 26 years old, I'm in a senior consulting role overseeing AdWords marketing. Okay. At that time, AdWords was a $40 billion a year business, right? So my boss comes to me and he goes, We're redoing the home page. And and he goes, you know that you see that blue sign-up button up there. He goes, if you mess that up by 0.05%, that's one twentieth of one percent. He goes, if you mess it up by 0.05%, that's $20 million a month. So no pressure, right? Don't screw it up. So I learned how to, you know, I learned how to convert, I learned how to close a deal through the internet because we're selling to two billion people in 200 different languages in areas where internet doesn't work really well across all the way to the full spectrum of the Americas, where we have light speed internet, right? So I learned all that kind of stuff. And then the other big platform uh I also helped with was at the time Google My Business, we now call Google Business Profiles, right? Um, and and that was really wild at the time. That was like that was when Google was trying to make Google business profiles into your website. They were effectively trying to kill off the website in general, which arguably they're still trying to do today. It hasn't gone away 10 years later. Um, but it is always changing, it's always evolving. And and so yeah, that was like when I got to my family's business, literally the first thing I did, I just looked, they weren't on Google at all. I put I put them on Google Maps and they got $300,000 in additional revenue in one quarter. You know, it's like crazy. That it is crazy. Like, that's what Google can do, though. That's what internet search can do. And if you know how to leverage it, that's what you can do with the business. And yeah, I just productized my my lifetime worth of experience into one thing. And um, and and for me, that's that's the value. You know, I I I couldn't be having a better time. I'm I'm not having to how do I say this? It's not that I'm not having to think, but it's just like this is me, you know, it's like this is what I've been doing for years, it's great.
SPEAKER_03I I think it's interesting because I I said this a lot in early days wrench way as we were building that out. Part of that was to produce content for almost your uh in a sense, it was a business page, but for recruiting technicians, right? And one of the things that I had constantly stressed to our clients was that you have content rolling in the doors every single day. Their struggle was coming up with the content to put out there, right? And and really kind of that shift in mindset of you know, you you think at times I think when you're in it every day, you you're like it's kind of a boring business, like we there's nothing exciting, just like any job, like you do it over and over and over again. You're you like don't see the appeal, but I see so much value in kind of sharing uh the stories that that roll into our shop every single day and some of the complexities that go into them. And you know, I think
Educating the Public on Auto Repair
SPEAKER_03I I I've talked a lot about this, but the need to educate the general population uh at a shop level is huge because I don't think a lot of people truly understand how complex and how hard these vehicles are to work on. And that's without even the technology side, right? Just like being able to get your hands in a certain place and and how difficult that is, uh, you know, and to get that stubborn connector apart. Uh there's so many things that go into it that are really, really challenging. Being able to have that story go out is I I truly think what's going to allow us to elevate our labor rates and to to really kind of, you know, we we see this in the Voice of Technician survey all the time, that yeah, a lot of technicians don't feel like they're respected from the outside population. And I'm like, well, that's because they don't know, right? They don't they don't know what we're doing. So yeah, how do we do that? We can we can tell stories uh in a way that is very public and very visible, right? So that that we can help be part of that solution.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. Well, and and a few points here. So from a Google perspective, there's nothing more expert or authoritative or trustworthy. That's their framework, right? Uh there's nothing more than you telling the real work of what you did. But also then sit back and and ask yourself before a system like service stories, maybe it's not even us, maybe there's others in the future, but like before a system like this, how much time would it have taken to pull a ticket? Find the one you want to write about, first of all. Pull the ticket, figure out how to write about it. Because you're an expert, you're gonna write some technical docs, and a customer can't read it, right? Now, the way we do this, uh, we take the customer's concern, we flip it into a question, and imagine the way that search is changing. We used to go auto-repair near me, and people still do that. I'm not saying it's gone, but it is evolving and it's moving very fast. Now people are picking up the phone and they're talking to their phone like they're voice texting a friend. We all do that. My dad did that to me, right? And they're saying things like, Why is my AC blowing hot air when I have it set to 62? Or what's wrong with my car? It feels like it's shaking. I can see that this light's on my dashboard. Can you tell me what it might be? That's how they're talking to the internet. So your old school keywords now basically what's happening is these AI systems are taking that paragraph that they put in and trying to break out what might be the real like question in there. And they might run 10 or 20 or 30 different searches. It's called a query fan out, right? Because we're querying, we're asking the internet. They'll fan out 10, 20, 30 different potential questions. They'll go Google search it or Bing, or they they have all different kinds of systems, and then they synthesize from there and they source it up. What research is showing, though, what millions and millions of attempts to try to, you know, reverse engineer ChatGPT are showing from some of the biggest SEO companies in the world. The reports are showing the companies who uh semantically match the query the best are the ones who are getting surface number one. Now that's a technical frame. What that means is the companies who are answering the questions that are nearest to the way the person's asking it are the ones who are getting results, who are getting to the top of those new mentions. And so when you have a piece of content that says, you know, break repair in Austin, Texas, that's pretty good for traditional keyword search. But now, what if that was break repair for a Honda Civic in Austin, Texas? Or what if that was a question that was not just a statement, right? Not just a forward break repair in Austin, Texas. What if it said, why are my brakes squeaking on my Honda Civic? And where can I go in Austin, Texas? What if you could write a piece of content like that and do it for every single vehicle coming through your shop? That's what Service Stories does, right? We help you take those tickets. You don't have to think about it. You look through our list of sample stories because every ticket comes in, we generate a sample story. You read the title and you ask yourself, do people ask me that every day? And if so, boom, click, generate story, publish it. That's how we work, that's how simple we've made it.
SPEAKER_03Uh I as you're talking, I I kind of look to my own experience of using Chat GPT versus Google, right? And it is a lot more feels like a lot more specific questions that I'm asking. And you you had talked about how you talk to your chat GPT or whatever you're doing. And and I it is really interesting because it does feel like it is more pointed. Uh my question would then be for the individual shop, how does that play from a localized level, right? So if if uh you know, if I might not, I'm in Wisconsin, it might not be in my best interest to come up in a in a search in Denver, right? Like how does that work on a localized level?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, good question. And that's a little bit of secret sauce uh that we're putting in there, but we're working that out as well in the same timeline because uh, yeah, we did start off with just like broad answers, right? And and we saw a lot of traffic come in, but then we noticed, you know, especially like when we're Audi Volkswagen all, we're getting a lot of traffic from Germany, right, or Europe or something, right? Um, we did notice that in the beginning. Uh, we're figuring that out as we go, is the answer. Um, we are getting better about it, and it and it comes into weaving in the locations, not in the headline H1, but actually um within some of the H2s, right? And and we're organically doing that with our AI systems, but um, there's also different ways where you can do that through schemas and enhance it. Um, the answer also to that is I don't think there's anybody who's going to have it purely figured out because these AI systems are not like traditional search in the sense of like traditional search, you could hit a result, like a you know, I'm number three, I'm number one, and and pretty well hold it. AI search, it's it's not stable. Like it's still at a point where it's a probability. And and your goal is now to be in 25 or 30% of the answers. I I actually worked with uh not worked in the company, but like we are partnered with and working with a um an AI answer analytics company. And they're they're saying to everybody, like, if you can get into 50%, if because what they do is they run prompts you want to own. Like, I want to be in this answer. They do this daily for companies, hundreds of them at a time. And they're they're saying to everybody, if you can get into that answer 50% of the time, you've monopolized it. They're like, that's so rare. Like, usually you're like 10 to 15, maybe 20%, right? Um, we've seen some of our customers get as high to 20 to 30 percent of answers. Um, but it is like nobody's figured out how to localize it purely yet. And so that is a that is a global challenge. And I think part of that will also come in when there is more content like this, right? Part of the reason our customers are getting some of that global traffic, they're still driving leads locally. I can show you that too. We can talk about that, but um, in the analytics, it'll show where they're coming from, right? Um, and and they're converting and it's becoming some of their most prominent landing pages, actually. Some of the most engaged people are literally reading it because it's a real story, it's not a marketing page about why I do break repair in Austin. And um what we're looking for is you know, I think as this scales out, as more companies are doing it, you have a similar story in Denver, a similar story in LA, a similar story in um Knoxville, Tennessee, whatever, then the internet will actually have the opportunity to localize it. Right now, some of these, some of our customers, you know, some of our customers are just the first to ever do it.
SPEAKER_03You know, that's crazy. I it it that part is fascinating to me because I you know, I think when you when you're typing a question into chat GPT, and we we've learned this a little bit on the Renchway side as well, where you know, as we've kind of as we record this, uh just announced that uh we at Renchway have been acquired by ASE and and so ASE kind of has that that automatic presence because it is that kind of that that third-party certification, you know, they've they've been around since the 70s. Yeah with the wrenchway side, it was crazy how much it picked up on uh I didn't even know or uh really think about where Wrenchway would show up in uh in Chat GPT on some of the search functionality, but because of the content we had produced for several years now uh on the site or even LinkedIn or wherever, yeah. It it really kind of established us as a subject matter expert, if you will, that it felt like we were being referenced in a lot of stuff. It kind of stinks because as we're going through this, we're we're kind of rebranding under ASE's name, yeah, where you lose some of that uh like what you'd established already with the the content piece, but just wild. Like we'd show up in places that I didn't think we ever would, and and uh it it was because of content and it was because of the things that we had done in years past, and and uh and I think this is one of those one of those topics where it's not going away, like this is just in the infancy stage, right? Like this is just going to keep growing on itself, and the faster you can get out in front of it and start producing content, the more I it In my opinion, the more likely you are to be successful at this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, the way I describe it is it's like we're staking ground in new territory that was not accessible before, right? Like, um, you know, you conquered search, you conquered traditional SEO, right? Now there's this whole new layer to it where, like, in the early days, you're gonna see reports. There's a lot of like old school SEO people who are just like, oh, nothing's changed. Google just reads the search results, and they just, you know, ChatGPT just sources the number one result. That's not true. Research is finding that. They do go crawl the search results, absolutely, but then they have their own steps in between too. And this is only going to evolve. They're gonna get more intelligent, they're gonna have their own ways of determining what, yeah, in the beginning they started that way, right? Like very rough and raw, but now it's getting bigger. Uh, just in the last several months, we've seen it go from you know, Chat GPT, Claude, Google doing two or three query fan outs to now 10 to 30, right? So, one thing I'm kind of saying as a parallel to all shop owners who know about this, um, the map pack for years. I'm sure you've been talking about the map pack. You got to be in the map pack. You pull up the map pack, you see all the dots, the colors, right? Oh, I'm red in this area, I'm blue, I'm green in that one, right? Like, I believe being more well represented across the query fan out is the new map pack. Okay. If you got 30 query fan outs and you're number one in all of them, do you think you're gonna be the number one result or the person behind you is? Versus let's say another situation which is more likely to be reality, there's 10 different results. You're number one in this one, your number two in three of them, your number eight in two of them, you know, and it adds up, and then it's gonna have its own inferences. Like that's why effectively what we're doing with service stories, we're we're trying to help you turn your website into your own Wikipedia, your own encyclopedia of not only the work you do, but like the different versions of it, right? AI search, let's go back. Search would pick you because you had a blog about break repair or a you know, a service page or a specialty page about Audi, right? That was good enough. But now with AI, they're gonna look for that. And then what if you also had a blog? So your Audi page is here and down, you know, attached below is these you know 50 different ways you've worked on Audi's in these five different ways you've approached a break job on uh Audi Q5, right? Like, who is going to be the expert that the internet recommends in a couple years from now? The shop that just has a single page about the fact that they do Audi repair, period, or the shop that has that and then has examples of how they've done it in the past and how it's been successful and how they help customers with authenticity, not just a marketing page. That's up to you to decide, but I think I know where I'm going.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, 100%. And I think uh I had uh Dave from Dave's Automotive at one point on and some other content creators on the podcast over the years, and a common theme that I've heard is that you can show people how the sausage is made fully knowing they're not going to make the sausage, right? And I I think when you look at this, yeah, there are times where shops are like, well, I don't I don't want to give that information away. I don't want to, I don't want to tell people how we do things, and you're like no, they're not gonna do it. Or if they do it, they're gonna do it poorly and they're going to have a bad experience on their own, right? So uh, you know, as much as they can use YouTube and and um maybe they see some instruction or something that you've done, I do think the more you can show them how the sausage is made, the more of that authenticity you have, and the more of you know it it the more it doesn't come across as a sales pitch, right? And I think that's what a lot of shops almost miss, yeah, is they're trying to go for the immediate sales pitch every single time, and it's just it it's just noise, then, right? It's not yet people want to learn.
SPEAKER_01Yep. And then you just look like every other shop, you know. But like, you know, to that extent, I've had people ask me that, and let's let's be real here. You know, we're all professionals, we all know how hard it is to do the work. If you explained how to do this work and someone read about it, uh, first of all, nowadays, especially, especially newer cars that are coming out, customers almost have to come to you with some of the tools that they need to fix these cars.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01Right? There's there's almost situations where they uh literally cannot try to do it at home unless they wanted to spend $10,000, $20,000, $50,000 on a tool or a machine or something, right? Let's be real. Okay, and that's probably only gonna get worse as technology evolves. Secondarily, let's say they they have a you know a 2,000 Honda Civic or 2001 Honda Civic, whatever, right? Like, sure, it's like Lego parts. Maybe they can work on it at home, but like also they could find that on YouTube. So what are you protecting yourself from? Why why don't you get the web track? Why don't you get a lead? You know, maybe they tried to do it, they messed it up because they watched somebody on YouTube or they trusted somebody on Reddit, and now you have the real content, and they're gonna come to you because they messed it up and now they got to pay you more because they fucked it up, right? Um, like let's be real. And and and then this the the last part here I just want to say is like also the way we help people write, we don't write it so extensively that like you're gonna put out the exact details of every step you took and put liability out on the internet, right? Like that's not it. We want an abstract, we want like a summary of the work you did in a in a general brief. You know, here's generally what we saw as professionals. Here's what you might see as a non-technical person, here's the risks that are involved if you don't take action on it. Here's some reviews of customers who came into it to us for similar jobs. And if that's enough to convince you, here's a CTA. Now book your time because you need help, right? Like pretty much that's how we do it. Um, it's not we're not giving away the secret sauce. I don't think that's intelligent. I'm not gonna have you put every line item of the parts and the tools you use. We're not gonna put you guys into great great risk and liability. That's not our that's not our job. But it's to help you get real authentic stories out there. And effectively every job we do could be a microcase study of proof that you do.
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How Google Reviews Feed AI Answers
SPEAKER_03How does that review side play into things? When you look at the different AI tools, are they are they considering, you know, hey, this this shop has a three-star Google ranking versus like a four-eight Google ranking. Are they taking that type of stuff into consideration or like it is that maybe an indicator of some level of uh expertise?
SPEAKER_01Uh absolutely it is. Yeah, I mean, I I don't want people to get confused and think that we we only make blogs either, right? We we help when you click generate stories, we generate a story for every platform you're on. So you're if you're on Google Business Profile, which I I hope to God you are, you should be at this day and age, you know. Um, if you're on Google Business Profile, you got a Facebook, you got an Instagram, uh, you click generate stories. We're gonna get you a blog, a Google Business Post, a Facebook post, and Instagram post on one.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01We do cross-platform. You log into your platform, we help you publish to it, right? So it's it's also that pain in the tail that people are not having to deal with when they work with us, right? It's like uh, and especially a multi-shop operation. Oh my God. I mean, we had three locations. I can't imagine some guys got five or ten or more, you know, and you're trying to run content across all of them and make it unique. I mean, I've seen a lot of guys who take the same piece of content and run it across every different uh profile page they have, which is like it's already a lot of work to make that content. I'm not saying that's bad, but it's like imagine if you could then make it unique to each location because it's it's more or less thoughtless, right? It's like I'm pulling in something that I know and it's it's helping me create it. And there's still some editing work. Like I'm not gonna sit here and say you should put it on autopilot. I I'm actually not a believer of that. I think that you should spend five or 10 or 20 minutes reviewing it and kind of tweaking it to you, but um compare that to what might have taken two or three or five hours for one post before, right, across all the channels, like with this high quality, right? Uh so yeah, I just think uh you got to keep them all alive. Google business is as important as ever before. That's you know, get your review numbers up, get your ratings up. And more than that, one other thing we're talking to people about is like get the quality of the reviews up. And that's the hardest one. Okay, that's the hard you have very little control of that. But uh, we've been in a race in this industry, and I let's call it the last five to ten years, which is go get reviews, right? Everybody finally caught on, and now we're just trying to get a higher number. So my neighbor's got 900, I want 1200, you know, whatever it is, and then and then it's your rating number, right? But at some point, and and this is already happening, but uh AI is reading those reviews too. So at some point, I believe what's gonna happen is it's gonna be now you have you both have 1200, or you have 1100 and they have 1200, and you're at a 4.8 and they're at a 4.6. Like, what's the real difference? Well, then we're gonna read through the reviews. And this shop, they got 1200 at a 4.8, and all they say is good people, great work. Good people, great work, good people, great work, right? Like that's but you you got 1100, or you even got 800 and you're at a 4.6, but you got real reviews. I brought my Honda Civic into Todd and they got my break job turned around in a few hours. They were great people, and they gave me, you know, this and that, which I didn't even expect, right? Like, that's the kind of stuff if you can get people to get you quality reviews, not just volume. I think that's the next layer we're gonna be chasing.
SPEAKER_03That's good advice, and is so true. I think when you have the super I I've uh checked out businesses uh in the past where you go read through their reviews and you're like, this feels like they're paying somebody to put these reviews out there, or they'll do it, you know, like there's no there's no substance to it, right? It's just kind of uh either just the five-star review or very, very basic in terms of what the feedback is or the comments are on it. And I just uh I I couldn't agree more. I think that side is so important. And again, going back to the fact that I think there are still a lot that don't take it overly serious, and you're like, this is this is the way of the world, that like this is it, it's not going away, it's going to continue to build on itself, and something like your goo your Google profile, business profile, you gotta take it seriously. Like that there, it's hard to at times justify the time it takes to maintain it, but if you can't find somebody that can for you because it it is vital to your business in how you're moving forward in the coming years.
SPEAKER_01Yeah,
Your Business Profile Is as Valuable as Your Website
SPEAKER_01and let me take a moment to talk about that too, the the value of it too, because like yeah, people do leave it astray. People, you know, lose their Google business profile, don't keep it up. You could argue that your Google Business profile is as or more valuable than your website. Why is that? Because it's built by Google, right? If you want to be listed in Google, how much easier is it for them than to get the data directly from you rather than having to crawl your website, right? Your business in automotive is service and you sell parts and labor. Okay. Google's business is information. It is literally, it was created to organize the world's information. That's what we were taught, right? That's what Sergei Brynn, that's Larry Page, is what they said. Organize the world's information. So that's why they built all these crawlers, right? They have to go find websites, but that's not free to them. That's not free. And if your website's not optimized, that's why you rank lower because it costs them more. And so they're trying to give you an incentive to you know build it so it's easier for them to crawl, right? But Google Business Profiles, they don't have to crawl it. You already just give it to their database. So they really reward the upkeep of Google Business Profiles, and they will continue. It's not going away. They recently just made integrations for your Instagram, Facebook, your socials too. So now, and and Meta made those indexable, just so everyone knows, last summer. So now they're gonna be pulling that stuff in. Now your social media is actually gonna matter too. Like they're looking for activity, they're looking for non-templated activity, they're looking for um the the framework is is called EAT, right? It's expertise, it's authority, it's trustworthiness, right? It's all those kind of things that come through. And if you can make media that is that, and not spammy at scale, but quality media that is that, then you're going to rank higher over time. Don't think of it as a tomorrow solution. You gotta do it now to get the jobs in two and three and six months, and you gotta keep it alive to keep it warm. But that's that's exactly why I built sourced service stories. I was so sore about it. You know, I just like it was so much of my time, and I thought I should be running this business, not running a content engine. And uh and I think everybody should operate that way. You know, get a tool now, AI can help you with it.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I I think as we're talking, I I could see that business leader, that shop leader that's out there listening to this almost instantaneously getting overwhelmed, right? Because, oh my goodness, I've I've got all these fires to put out every day, and now Joe and Jay are telling me that I need to do all this other stuff. And you're like, no, but the point of service stories to begin with is to cut out a lot of that work, knowing that it is very, very important. And really a lot of our conversation up until this point has been talking through the why. And it it is like it is hard, and it we know it's important and we know we need to give it attention, but to your point, there are tools out there to help now and and things that can can uh can really put you in a better position.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, exactly. And and yeah, whether it's server stories or it's something you made in-house, whatever, just you know, get something put together, get a plan, because um it's gonna be more important than ever before, and it's not stopping. Like the the train, the search tactics, the way that it works, it's not slowing down. If anything, it's picking up an evolution. I do think if there's one stronghold that's gonna be steady, it's that we will continue to talk to our computers and our and our phones. You know, that was that's one thing that um, if I could come in as an internet historian for a second here, okay. We're gonna think about the evolutions of how we work with computers. Okay. Very long ago, before we really had mainframes, um, computers were people. It was often women in a back room, you know, uh computing things. Computers was the job role. Then we made um binary machines that would accept punch cards. Okay, you had these cards that had holes in them, and the machine would read through the holes and understand the binary of it. Okay. There's a reason we didn't adopt computers far and wide, because that was a pain in the ass. Okay. And the next layer, like 1960s, 70s, you saw like command line predominantly pick up. So at this point, now we can type in a machine, we don't have to do the punch cards, but you still got to speak the computer's language, right? You gotta be able to know the code that it speaks in order to control it. And again, we didn't see mass consumer adoption. It wasn't until the 80s and especially the early 90s when we started to see mass consumer adoption of computers because we had now Apple came out with a graphical computer and a mouse. Okay, you could point and click and choose things. Even a child can be standing on the kitchen floor and point and scream at the cookie jar, and you know what they want. So it was so easy to work with a computer with point and click that everybody could start to do it. And then it got into our phones, and we had an era there in the early 2000s, mid-2000s, where it was like, now you're gonna swipe on this stuff, you're gonna shake your phone, you're gonna do it, and everyone, I don't think people really loved it. But like they tried to get what was called in the valley, we called it an intuitive interface. It just wasn't quite as intuitive as they wanted. But where we are today and where we're gonna head into is this conversational, more of like an ambient. Computers that just kind of happen and work around us. And we're in the early stages of it. We are already starting to talk to machines, but think of this and walk away with this, okay? This is the first era of computing where we don't have to learn the computer's language, the computer's learning our language. That's why it's gonna stick around. The market will be bigger than ever before. The older people who don't know how to type or don't understand how to use an interface, they don't have to worry about it. They just talk to the thing. Same with kids, right? I'm sure y'all got kids at home, they're clicking around on things. Probably they can click around on things faster than you can, and you don't even know how they pick that up because you don't even know how to do it. Well, imagine when they can just talk to the machine. Okay. Like it's gonna open up, it's not going away. It maybe some people choose not to do it, but it's not going away. And the way people search is gonna change forever because of that.
SPEAKER_03I I'm curious uh to maybe have more of a future-facing conversation too, to get your thoughts on where you see some of you know, I obviously you hear a lot about autonomous vehicles, but yeah, you're you're hearing more and more with like humanoid robots and uh kind of the evolution of a lot of uh a lot of actual physical things being done. And I know uh Elon has made some pretty uh pretty wild predictions about the for the future. I I'm curious of your thoughts of uh kind of just in general where maybe Elon's off base or where he when you when you look at this, I think it is it's it's scary at some level because you do think about what where AI is going and the power that it now has of you know jobs for the future. I was looking at the America's Talent Strategy report and reading through that, and you can tell the government's kind of freaking out about it a little bit and like where where this leads. But just curious, I know this is a really kind of vague way of putting it, but what do you see with the future of a lot of this stuff?
SPEAKER_01Sure, yeah. And also just to kind of uh plant a note here too for everyone, like where I'm coming from on this. I I I wrote a book called Automating Humanity 10 years ago, which is pretty much about this. Um, and that was what led to me being featured in the social dilemma. And like I've been asked this kind of question for a long time, everything from podcasts to national news broadcasts, and like so I think about this all the time. I love talking about stuff. And um Elon says what Elon says. Some of it, some of it's real today, some of it's real in 50 years. And and the challenge is to figure out like, yeah, how do we know, right? What is real? Well, let's let's talk about humanoid robots. You said that there it's gonna happen, right? It's like it's like um horses back in the day. Everybody that loved horses, like did not want the car, right? Or had a business around horses, stables, whatever, did not want the cars to come in. At least in the United States, it was a matter of economics, really, and and efficiency, because that's what we are in the core of our nation, no matter what anybody wants to sentimentally feel about it. Um, so it's coming. Elon's put a number on those robots, something I think it was like $25 trillion market. And so, how do you get there? That's insane, right? $25 trillion. Uh, okay, that claim is effectively him saying we're going to get rid of a bunch of human labor. He's saying, here's how much the human labor market is worth. If I can capture half of it, it's worth this much. That's a bold claim. And uh the reality is part of it may come true. I don't know that it all will. I don't know on what timeline, but it's very likely that we will see humanoid robots. Um we uh not we will, we are already, right? It's it's a it's just a matter of time that they become cheaper, better, all those things. Um, that being said, you know, all the guys in our shops, they are mechanics, right? And and yes, you're working on cars today, but you might be working on robots in the future. Okay, that that's why Tesla's building human eye robots. It's not that strange to go from a car to a machine that can move, right? It's all about mobility and mechanics. That's what we fix. Okay. Now the other flip side of that is back when cars were taken over, people were also scared of job loss and destruction of local economies and things. And arguably, we wouldn't, I mean, not. Arguably fact. We would not have mechanics today if there were no cars. Right. Right. So jobs will be created out of this. We've already seen AI slop. That's a real thing. Um, I don't think they're coming to take all the jobs, um, if not for a very long time. I don't think the intelligence is what everybody's claiming. I think the more dangerous part of it is that we believe the claims and then we allow it to lead us, even though it's not that smart. That that I really, though.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_01I think that is the more dangerous side of this, is that we buy into the marketing and we allow some like halfway intelligent uh magic screen tell us what's right and what's wrong. Okay. So everybody keep that in mind. Um, but yeah, I do think that that's where it's headed. Um, I also think like in regards to repair and booking appointments and things like that, I definitely could see a world where our cars are intelligent enough to sense their problems. And you could have a system where owners just say, hey, you know, when you got a problem, take care of yourself, right? Or or tell me about it and then tell me where you want to go, and I'll let you know if that's right or not. Right. And and so effectively at that point, um, when we're talking about AI search, right, and it's humans talking, at some point it will probably be uh also just machines talking.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So whether it's your website or whatever it is in the future, may not be a literal website. You need to be prepared for a world where these AI services, these bots built into the machines, are going to speak for the machines, and you'll have a negotiator on the other side and you'll go back and forth to set an appointment. You know, it may not be fully automated. Some people might want that, right? There probably will be shops that get run by the machines. And I don't know how much technicians will love it. So you may not get the best technicians, right? That's the other flip side of it, too, right? People don't want to be screwed over by AI. We're seeing that, we're seeing a lot of revolts. But there's a very real potential world where the the car knows it has a problem, the owners set it on autopilot, and it books an appointment at your shop, it drives in and it drives to the lift, your guys put it up and start working on it, right? Um, crazy. That's a real potential in the future. I don't know if that's five years off or 20 years off, but it's a very real potential. And in between now and then, you're you're optimizing for AI search, and that's the beginning of it.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And even as you think through that process down the road, if your car is making suggestions to you on where it should go, like there's there's a lot to be unpacked there, right? Because it it you're trying to establish yourself as that subject matter expert, as the as the shop and that trusted source. I I love the EAT acronym because I think that in general should be the way you operate your business, right? You want to be that authoritative uh figure that you're you want to be known as the best, right? And if you're transparent and uh and you have that expertise and you're showing it because you are putting content out, I think that's where when we talk about the long game, like we are very early in this, uh, in a lot of ways, and in some ways it's been around for a long time, but like for sure, I think the more you can you can kind of get comfortable with that, that things are going to change and things will be different. I I think it's it's not bad.
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SPEAKER_03Now I do going back to Elon for a second, not to make it an Elon podcast, but the uh the claim that he had made at one point where he was talking about he his thought was that work would be optional at some point, right? Like it almost like a hobby rather than uh because everything driven by robots or by um by AI as a whole, your life can become significantly easier because uh it's not as financially straining or you know, uh basically any service could be done by one of these things. And so I I just look at it and he's a pie in the sky type of guy, but if you look at his track record, he's delivered on a lot of it, right? Uh some of the stuff that seemed really, really crazy. And even as you look at his transition from shifting some of his factories away from uh from Tesla to more of uh not Tesla from the cars to uh some of the robots, you're like, yeah, he's serious about it. Like there's there's some stuff coming.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I mean, the the reality is uh it's it's not coming, it's it's here. It's here and he's and he's manifesting it. Um and there's plenty of opportunity to try to break down, you know, his Ponzi scheme of businesses and funding he's he's got to make it happen. But like, you know, it's happening regardless. It there are real factories doing this, there are real rocket ships going into space. He's built real infrastructure in space for satellites, all this stuff. Um, and another side of it that's not just Elon to bring it up here for everybody who hasn't seen it. Um, my wife's from China, she's from Beijing. And so I just recently went to China for the first time about six months ago. And I would argue that they are farther ahead on AI than we are, like significantly. Um I actually think that the reason we consider their cars to be a national security threat is not necessarily a surveillance, although that's part of it, um, but actually that they are so capable and affordable that it would gut our market. Like I sat in a car, an SUV, a brand new SUV that I could get in the backseat. It had a massage chair, it had a 16-inch screen, it had self-driving, it had all the things like crazy, brand new SUV, uh mid-size. How much would you pay in the United States for a leather layback massage chair with TV and everything in SUV? You just give me a number, you know the industry.
SPEAKER_03100 grand.
SPEAKER_01100 grand? Yeah. $32,000. That would gut our market, right? So um, you know, beyond that, they have they have robots that are doing road work. You know, I've said for years, we already have all the sensors in cars. Why don't we why don't we have sensors on on the shocks in the car? So every time that we hit things in the road, we could sense how big that pothole might be, and then have it sent to a database that tracks the GPS location of that pothole. The city would then know where all the potholes are based on the impact, the the difference in the spring tension. We could know about how big it is, all those kind of things, and prioritize them. You could send a robot out to fill it overnight and it wouldn't distract anything. Well, they're pretty pretty close to that in China, you know. Um, and and their life is better because of it. Um, but yeah, they've also made laws to protect people in it, right? That that's something we are not doing in the United States, which does concern me. I do think um we have a current environment, and I'm not talking politics at all, I'm talking just like business in general, that is um relatively not contained. You know, it's just they're doing everything for the corporate bottom line. And and I think that's why we're seeing so much stress here is there's no plans for the people. We don't have a transition plan. Whether that's, you know, uh uh something that someone wants to say, oh, well, our politicians, this and that. It's not. You know, I've I've been in this world for uh 10 years now trying to be an advocate and trying to make the internet safer and put ethics behind tech. It it it was there in the first Trump administration, it was there in the Biden administration, it's there again now, right now in the Trump administration. It's not a partisan issue, it's a it's a corporate thing. And yeah, uh it but it's a bipartisan issue that we protect our communities from losing jobs and losing health care and sustaining. And I think that's the biggest thing that concerns me, and I hope we figure out as a community is you know, how do we bridge this gap? Because the way we make a plan is the is the difference between is this a few years, you know, like maybe five or 10 years worth of a painful transition, or is this like 50 years, you know, of like we're just letting people figure it out. There's no social support net, you know, there's no like go ahead, you know, you got to go back to college, you're 45 years old. Like people will riot, and that's my bigger concern. I like, yeah, I really believe AI is good when used as a utility. I believe in data use as a good economic asset. Um, I think we need to figure out how to get people paid for the data they create.
SPEAKER_03Okay, that's a whole other thing. Yeah, yeah, you're absolutely right.
SPEAKER_01About five, six years ago. That's crazy. And the thesis was this if you have these robots to go do this, right? And these workers are no longer there, where's our tax revenue come from? You you don't have income tax, you've laid off people, they're doing work. You then don't have sales tax because those people can't buy things. That is the large majority of our tax revenue in this country, right? Where does it come from? Well, now the corporations are hoarding value because they've had uh cameras watching us at work all the time, looking at how we move and then using that data to train the robots who take our jobs. Why am I not getting paid for a cut of that? Or like I actually had a TED talk, I don't know, was it 2018, 2019? Um, and the title was You want to work for Google? You already do. And it was all about how we built Google, you know, Google Maps, for example, all the photos, all the reviews, all the content. That's what makes Google Maps valuable. We didn't get paid a dime for that, but they make billions, billions of dollars off of it and targeting us and and using our data. What if you got a small slice of it? You know, this was part of the data taxation systems. Like, how do we extract some of that value at a like a state or a federal level and put it back into our communities? Because actually getting down to the individual level of data rights is very hard, right? Your your individual value of data is not so much as it is in an aggregate, right? Like Oprah Winfrey's address is probably worth a lot, but yours probably, right? But imagine this imagine a scenario. So so Facebook says the average user is worth about $200 a year to them. Give or take, you know, that number changes annually. But um, let's say your data touches 10,000 companies a year or 50,000 companies a year. It's very realistic that it does, just FYI, the way that it moves through and goes, gets sold to people and all this that happens. It's very likely that your data has been touched by upwards of you know 50 or 100,000 different companies every year, whether they know it or not. What if you got paid 25 cents for every company that touched it? Not $200 a year like Facebook, 25 cents for 50,000 companies a year. That's $12,500 in your back pocket because you created data which was an asset for them. That's the truth. Seems fair, yeah. So we'll have to figure it out at some point. I think that's that's kind of their fear, too, though, is like if they were forced to pay us for the data, they'd go bankrupt. And the billionaires don't like that. So I think we need to I think we need to get paid, though. That's I could be a billionaire, or I could be a trillionaire also if billions of people were working for me for free.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, my goodness. I again going back to why I love your insight and input on everything. You you were an expert at this stuff, uh, on top of sharing what you're doing with service stories. Uh just awesome. I think that AI conversation, I I think I'm like a lot of people where there's a part of me that really, really embraces it. And I think it it already has made my life easier in a lot of ways, but it's also scary, right? And there are times you're like, maybe I should just live off the grid. Like there's just like all of these thoughts that go through, but I think a lot of it is because of the uncertainty of where it's going to lead. And I think we're all naturally conditioned to want to know what the end result is ahead of time, right? And so I I do think that's part of the scary piece of just uh I'm certainly not an expert like you are. Uh, we do have people on our team that have dove headfirst into a lot of this. Uh, we've really, you know, even with our developers, put them on just working on that right and and trying to develop tools and trying to really understand it uh at a at a different level. Because uh, as we talked about throughout this podcast, it's not going away. You may as well embrace it because uh it is gonna change some things. Yep. If it gets to the point where it folds my laundry, I'm gonna be really, really pumped.
SPEAKER_01Uh for sure. That that's a billion-dollar company. I pay for that shit.
SPEAKER_03Same. Yeah, yeah. And you're probably not stealing too many people's jobs there. Uh no, I I it it's something that we'll have to keep our finger on the pulse of. Hopefully, we'll be able to get you back on uh to to kind of keep our our eye on this stuff, and and you can help us uh educate the audience on on where we're heading with things. So I uh I look forward to that. I do have to end with three fun questions. This has changed since the last time you were on. Uh, and so
Rapid Fire Get-to-Know-You Questions
SPEAKER_03three kind of get to know you questions. Okay. First one is what was your first car?
SPEAKER_01Oh, my first car was a 90 Ford Honda Prelude SRV, which nice, all right. Uh was at the time, uh, at least what I was told by my dad, you know, I I was not the historian, but he was like, Yeah, actually, you know, just keep it off. Like, this is not this is not legal in the US the way they've they built these engines. It was from Canada kind of thing. And I was like, Okay, cool. But it was a little hot rod, you know, it's fun, stick shift, and it moved. So I had a lot of fun with that.
SPEAKER_03Fun car, yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh second question is are you an early morning person or a late night person?
SPEAKER_01You know, that's changed over the course of my life. Yeah, I used to be like military early and loved it, and now I I mean, this is still early to a lot of people, but now I'm like, I'm happy to get up at 8 a.m. You know, I I still I can't physically really sleep until 10 a.m. or something, but sometimes lately I've been up till like 2 a.m. just I because I'm loving what I'm doing, you know, and I'm just in a zone and there's all these lights from the screen. I don't see it, and then I go to bed at 2 or 3 a.m. and I'm like, oh yeah, okay, I woke up at 10, and that makes sense. But um, but yeah, generally I'm I'm a morning person. I'm trying to find a balance because uh I don't want to be the person who wakes up at noon, you know. Oh, that's not not on my roadmap.
SPEAKER_03Uh last question, uh, favorite type of food.
SPEAKER_01Favorite type of food. Oh my god, that's terrible. We're here to ask the hard-hitting questions. Um, that is the hardest of hard. Um, you know what? If I could put a broad on it, I'm gonna say uh Chinese food. And and I I say that because you know, I think we're all used to like uh Mongolian beef, right? Or like uh orange chicken or something. That's American Chinese. And uh, if y'all are ever in Omaha, let me know. My wife and I will take you out to some authentic Chinese and it'll change it'll change your world. I mean, the the way that they cook, I mean, man, also talk about efficiency. Uh, whether I'm in New York or I'm here in Omaha at a real authentic Chinese restaurant, you order, it's out on your table in five minutes. When I was in China, we ordered here's how oh my god, oh my god. It was this was not all the restaurants, but like a good amount of them. You sit at the table, there's a QR code, you put your order in, they know what table you're at, right? Then it comes out within five minutes. We had some of them, they come and put you know, the sand dial, you flip it at times, they come put that shit on the table. I say, if we don't come out before this is done, we it's free. It's like, what? This is little poop, done there, and they come out and they do it one dish at a time. So they slap the receipt on your table, and every dish they pull out, they strike it off. Strike it off. So and then they're like, Oh, timer's not done. Yep, yep, you pay us. I was like, Yeah, cool.
SPEAKER_03I pay happy to. Yeah, uh, it it's funny. The I think you're the first person that we've asked this question now. Uh our marketing team had asked that I start including that as like the fun kind of ending to this now. And I think you're the first Chinese food uh response to this. We've had a lot of Mexican food, which I'm a huge Mexican uh food fan.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And uh you'll have like a distant second of like Italian, and then you're you are, I want to say, the first one to say Chinese food. So that and and authentic good Chinese food.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. No, that's I couldn't live without it at this point. It's changed my life.
SPEAKER_03Well, I want to say thank you for for everything you do to help educate me on kind of the future of the world, uh, in this specifically our world. Uh, but you you spoke at Tectonic uh this past year, and you have so much going on with Service Stories for for those of the the folks that want to keep up with you. How how uh how do they follow along?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, uh service stories.com is the website. We have a LinkedIn and a Facebook page, although we're not as active as we hope to be in the coming months or and a YouTube, I guess. Um but a couple big updates too. I mean, we we just signed uh integration partnership with techmetric, and maybe by the time this gets out, you know, it's already live. So, you know, look on your integration page, we'll be there. It'll be one click button to get connected. Um, yeah, we're we're moving fast, we're having a lot of fun, and uh, I'm I'm loving it. We we provide human American-based customer service. Me and someone who speaks English first language, like, yeah, hell yeah. Let's let's it is a big one, you know, all these AI support and stuff. It's like, give me the people, give me the people. So yeah, come hang out, come, come meet us. Uh, we'll we'll be doing webinars and teaching people too, because I want to put this information out there. I think everybody needs to know how to do it, whether you use us or not. Come learn and um ask me questions. I'm excited to talk to you.
SPEAKER_03All right. I I I'm gonna take you up on that. And uh someday I'm gonna take you up on having Chinese food with you in Omaha. Uh I that that uh that seems like a good one. But thanks again for joining us. Uh, absolutely always a pleasure and uh look forward to the next time.
SPEAKER_01Hell yeah. Well, thanks for having me. We'll talk soon.
SPEAKER_03That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode, please show your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews on Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, did you know Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by the Wrenchway team? Wrenchway is an online community dedicated to promoting and improving automotive and diesel careers. We help technicians find the best jobs to work at, and we also help auto, diesel, and CTE instructors get more support from local industry. You can learn more by visiting wrenchway.com.