Beyond the Wrench

Cool Shop Culture Is No Accident

• Jay Goninen

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Gabe Christian, Owner of Import Performance Auto Repair in Bend, Oregon and seven-time winner of best shop in the city, returns to break down what shop culture actually looks like from the inside. He and Jay get into the daily habits, team dynamics, and small details that make technicians want to show up and stay.

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SPEAKER_00

I really think the shop culture is all encompassed a around the shop and the image of the shop. What is the business? What does it look like? What's the feel when you go into it? The main people running the shop, like how are they to deal with? I feel like those things are really important.

SPEAKER_01

Beyond the Wrench with Jay Ganinen from Renchway. Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench. My name is Jay Ganinen, and I am your host. On today's show, we welcome back Gabe Christian from Import Performance. Uh Gabe was on the show probably a couple years ago. I should have looked that up to see exactly when. But Gabe is one of my favorite people in terms of his perspective and how he looks at uh how to run a shop. Uh, what we're going to talk about today is really culture focused, but it's a different conversation about culture. It's really culture from within the shop and really kind of what creates that cool culture. So, Gabe, we're here today to learn all about cool culture in a shop. Welcome back to the show. How are you?

SPEAKER_00

Thanks, Jay. Appreciate it. I actually did um look back when I did that podcast, and it was at least three years ago because it was yeah, 23, I think it was like early 23. So it been a while. I know. Yeah, that's how that's how fast it goes.

SPEAKER_01

Time flies. What's new at the shop?

SPEAKER_00

Um, we're we're summertime trucking, you know. Um, it's super busy. I got my full staff. We we had a little some change up, you know, in the beginning of the year, which is typical. You know, not always what you want, but it's just how it how it goes, you know. But uh got a great crew again, super busy. Um just yeah, kind of going back to normal and just trying to, you know, keep all my stuff going to keep my guys happy and keep the place full of cars. And but yeah, I would say it's going really good. We're gonna have another great year.

SPEAKER_01

For those that are listening, I I Gabe and I were talking before we hit record, and it it felt like a therapy session. I felt bad for Gabe because I was kind of uh just uh talking to him about business challenges and and the shop world as a whole and and how sometimes that can be a little complicated, a little messy, especially when it bec when it comes to people, both on the customer side and the staffing side. But you just always have kind of this really chilled out vibe uh all the time that it it uh I do you ever kind of raise above that or below that? It it it's just always uh it's always fun to talk to you.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I've I've heard that before, and I kind of feel like I just put on this persona and I just hide all the, you know, really when I'm when I'm off the mic, yeah, my hair is on fire and I'm running around in the shop like a crazy man. No.

SPEAKER_01

If you're hiding it, you do a heck of a lot better job than I do, I can tell you.

SPEAKER_00

I was gonna say too about your therapy session. I I actually really like helping other shop owners. Like I I I feel bad when when guys are you know just struggling to, I don't know, to hire or to get more cars in or whatever it is, because it it is it's not the easiest gig, you know. You could do something much easier, yeah. Um, but this is I guess for some of us we love it, and um there is ways to dial it in. I I do really like helping people, you know, just try to figure out what they're missing. Uh most of the time, I would say, like with the guys I work with on a weekly basis, they don't really listen, listen, and they do the same stuff over and over and over again, you know. It's like making those kind of hard decisions to make the changes. They have trouble with that. A lot of people do. Like you you gotta really want to make it better for yourself and better for the shop. And you know, there's there's upfront work with any kind of change or idea that you have, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01

It's I do that stuff. Well, it's always it's always kind of like the I forget the saying where they talk about you know, you you're going to and until the pain of changing is less than the pain of staying, you're just going to kind of stay, right? And I think that's where a lot of times in a shop, that's when it comes to a blowing point where voices are raised and and you know, it's stuff that we've been holding on to for a long time and it comes to a front to where all of a sudden all of that comes out. And I think as guys, that's kind of part of our DNA, right? Where it's that that uh bottle it up, bottle it up and and uh not let it out until uh it explodes. And I I think that's the challenge a lot of times in not confronting an issue straight on. And I'm a number one most guilty person of that in the world. And it is uh probably one of my major weak points, right? It and I think I'm about to be a very common Yeah, in our world for for sure. And I, you know, I grew up around that it in a shop, and it was it's just always kind of been that way. So I um I think I I don't really have that fuse uh to light where it's real bad, but I've been in shops where that is bad, and that's not fun to be on the other side of that. And I think it almost causes a like a paralysis it within the shop, right? Where if you don't know what side of J you're going to get when I walk in the doors in the morning, it kind of creates this angst and this this uncertainty that I don't think is is great from a leadership perspective.

SPEAKER_00

No. I mean you just made me think of a little post-it thing I had below my monitor for years that said confront, persistence, discipline. Like someone showed, yeah, and it's it's just three words and it's kind of intense, you know, confront, because that's like number one. Like, I mean, I had a manager before that always wanted to deal with things, you know, the next day or the next week, you know, let's get it figured out. I'll I'll confront him next week. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You know, you you gotta confront things right away because tomorrow you're gonna have something else, right? Yeah, and then yeah, and then the persistence thing. I mean, I see this with a lot of shop owners as well. Like they do a bunch of marketing, get a bunch of cars in there, super busy, and then they're just like everything's fine, they're just gonna go about helping the technicians fix all the cars, you know, a month later slows down again, no cars. It's like it's like marketing is like one of those things that you have to be very persistent, you have to do it every month, you have to have a plan for the year. And if you do it like that, it's easy. You almost get rid of the job a bit because it's just like every month you know the next marketing you're gonna do, and um but yeah, autopilot, yeah, at that point, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And what was your last one? Discipline, easy to say, hard to do.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm. Yeah, and you know, I think I'm disciplined in a lot of the shop stuff, my personal life so much, like trying to work out consistently. That's hard, right?

SPEAKER_01

I my co-founder and I, Mark, we talk about that a lot, and you kind of have a running joke that we probably shouldn't, which is diet starts Monday. And uh it's it's not worked well for either of us over the years. And uh my wife loves working out, and in fact, if she doesn't work out, she really is is uh grumpier and like just not as happy if she's not working out. And there is some element to where I think us as business leaders, you get kind of stuck in the minutiae, and I I it's an excuse, right? Because I've seen so many business owners or business leaders that are so good at that. And and there are times where, like, say if I hit the treadmill, which I'm good for a couple times a year, uh hit the treadmill, you're yeah, my mind is just always thinking about what I should be doing rather than that. And if you have your priority straight, that should be like, hey, if I don't take care of myself, I'm not gonna be around to do all of these really, really important things, right? So I that discipline thing, so hard to get my hands around.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, like I said, I'm really good with the shop. It's like just really organized with it, but yeah, like the home, home stuff. Like I have a shop where my toolbox is at next to my house, one rack and everything. And my shop here, the big shop is you know, it's immaculate. Like the tool room, everything is labeled. Like I keep it really clean and I hound the guys a lot. Um, I love that. But my home shop, yeah, disaster. All my tools are out. Like, damn it. I always do a project and then like leave to get home to like think about the big shop, you know.

SPEAKER_01

I I I feel your pain there as well. Uh as actually, as we record this, we're recording on a Monday. I was finally home long enough for my home shop to kind of take some time to organize. And oddly, I love doing it. It's just having the time to kind of do it, right? And I will I have this weird thing where if we're home on like a Friday night, I will like my son and wife will go to bed, and I have gotten addicted to watching YouTube videos about garage organization, which is probably the dorkiest thing I've ever done in my life, but it is fascinating. That's my getaway now is watching watching videos on garage organization.

SPEAKER_00

I love that. I love that's why I like seeing other people's shops. I take tons of pictures of you know different things that give me ideas.

SPEAKER_01

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SPEAKER_00

So yeah, I visited a friend um not too long ago out in Asheville, North Carolina. He's got a big shop, uh similar size as mine, and um we're always competing month after month. I think I think for the year he might be ahead of me right now, but I was beating him for most of the year. He just like just started going on a tear. But um, yeah, his shop was immaculate like mine. But one thing I didn't have that they had that I really latched on to is they had this really cool like commercial floor cleaner, you know, like the walk behind, and it it like has a big brush in the front. Um so yeah, we have one now. Like literally, I got it last week. You know, it was like six grand. I'm like, I've gotta have it. Like, and now my shop is even cleaner. So that was a great thing.

SPEAKER_01

How did those work? I've always because you see some of them are the ride-on ones, some of them are the push ones.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, so this works pretty good, it sounds like yeah, it goes like back and forward and it's it's easy to maneuver around. And they come with like kind of more of like an SOS kind of scrubby wheel up front, but for an auto shop, you should buy this like big thick brush just because it's it can deal with the oil more and stuff, you know. Um and then you put like it's basically like simple green, you know, it's just like a shop commercial floor cleaner, and you fill it up with water, and it literally scrubs and squeegeees and vacuums up everything. Like, so you you go through a guy's bay and it it literally cleans it way better than you can mop it because it's actually like you know, scrubbing the concrete. So it's like, yeah, it's phenomenal. It's yeah, my shop is literally like like the floor is like bright now. Like everyone says the reflection from the lights, like it's just like yeah, it's great. I would highly recommend it.

SPEAKER_01

Did you put like a coating down on your floor or is it just general concrete?

SPEAKER_00

It's it's like nice condition concrete, but it doesn't have like a yeah, it it basically was like hardened with kind of like a a little bit of a coating, but it's mostly just you know, just really clean concrete, but it's nice and smooth. I know some shops, even like my shop next to my house, it's like they didn't uh finish it as well or something like that. Like they didn't, you know, polish it and smooth it down, so it's kind of just it like holds the oil really bad, you know, or my shop, everything wipes up really nice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I and I I've seen pictures of your shop and it is absolutely beautiful, very immaculate. One of those little kind of attention to detail things that I don't know if you guys do this, but I've seen more and more are people using the oil mats versus like floor floor dry. Oh yeah. It feels like that that helps kind of control the mess a little bit more too, just because you don't you're not like old days of a shop, like tripping over that that oil dry all over the place, and now you can kind of control that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't know if I've ever actually used that stuff, the kitty litter. So we just terrible, yeah. It is, it's it just makes everything look crappy. You know, you know, you don't want that old gas station looking shop, you know.

SPEAKER_01

You no, you don't. And when I started off in the industry, what I what I remember, well, when I like just some of my first jobs in our family shop were like at night, I'd go clean the shop and then I'd take out all the garbage. And I just remember how heavy those garbage cans were because you would scoop it up and throw it in the garbage, and then I I'd have to take them all out to the dumpster. And just like I was not a big guy, and so like you're lit, you're lifting that garbage can off and trying not to like to keep the lid up while you're trying to get that over without trying to dump everything all over the place, and what an absolute mess. I I uh I'm really happy that uh those oil, I don't even know what you call them. Like I'm glad they came around, those mats, because that uh just trying to keep stuff clean looks so much better.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know why they call them pigmates, but that's yeah, but we have like a couple different sizes of them, and the big ones work really nice too, to like having our tool room like the roll-around like gear oil drums and stuff, they're kind of usually sometimes drippy, though we park those on the those big mats and stuff, it's kind of cool.

SPEAKER_01

Well, shout out to whoever came up with pig mats because they are a an absolute genius. Yeah, from the industry, we say thank you. Yeah, yeah. Well, so as we're talking through all of this, sorry for the side conversation because I I could geek out. As I mentioned, just love that kind of conversation. But the reason we're here today is to talk more about culture. And I thought it was an interesting viewpoint from your end of I think we talk a lot about leadership and uh two leaders on how to build a good culture, how to keep a good culture, how to find the right people for your culture. But maybe we don't do enough about talking about the actual culture in the shop, like what drives you crazy, what makes an a work environment fun, and just you know, I think generally liking being around the people you're you're working with every day because you are spending so much time in a shop. Talk to me a little bit about that importance, right? Of of maybe finger on the pulse of knowing what's going on in a shop and and just like do my people like each other or don't they? And what do I have to do to solve that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I feel like you hit on some really good points that I wasn't even really thinking of before, but what I you know was brainstorming earlier this morning, I I was just thinking more of you know, I think what what people are looking for. Um and it it it does help to get along with your coworker and to like your boss for sure. I mean that those are some big things, but I really think like the shop culture is all encompassed around you know the shop and like the image of the shop, the what it what is the business, um, you know, what does it look like? What's the feel when you go into it? You know, the the main people running the shop, like how are they to deal with? You know, I feel like those things um are really important. So it's not just one I you could probably find little bits of good shop culture at many shops, right? They might have, you know, a good service manager, but then the owner's not nice, or you know, they they could be a good group of people, but the shop is dark and the equipment's old, that sort of thing. Like I really feel like the culture is kind of all-encompassing. Um and that's I what what I feel like I've been really lucky with. I mean, I've I did build the shop, you know, and I I designed it and everything and and made it in such a way, that's you know, how I envisioned it. But also I just I feel like I always thought about like, you know, trying to create a good place for people to work at and have fun, not just to work and make cars, but actually like enjoy themselves and have fun, even goof around. But yeah, um to go back to that, I really feel like it's just everything with the shop. It's like you know, the image, the reputation, um, you know, what's their position in town? You know, are they the shop that's just a really specialist niche shop that only works on certain cars? Or are they like a shop that you know wants to bring all the local people in? You know, um, here in Bend, Oregon, we have tons of Toyotas and sprinter vans and some European cars. So we try to tailor to them, you know, who are the people that are here? You know, and we try to be extremely convenient towards people. We have you know a pretty large crew that's fast moving. There's 13 of us here. So I feel like we can, you know, last I think last week we did 100 cars, and you know, we can process a lot of cars really quickly, we're very efficient. Um when I really am confident in my three guys on the counter, they're just you know, they really like their job. I mean, that's number one. So, like anyone who comes in, like they don't generally have best sour attitudes and bad attitudes, and they, you know, anyone who comes in, they they want to talk to people, you know. Um, I was just telling you earlier, Jay, that I'll I'll hit on again is uh we have a new mechanic that's been with me uh three weeks now, or a technician, I should say, right? We're trying to find technicians, but um I really like how we found this person because it was I was doing some crazy marketing. Um, I don't know if you heard of AutoShop Media, but I do lots of you know new new things, and I had you know all the normal stuff going, the zip recruiter, you know, indeed, you know, new stuff on Renchway. We're hitting up our social media stuff, Craigslist even. Um, we ended up getting a technician from a parts runner guy that just loves our shop so much, he wanted to find us a technician. But this is a great example of like, yeah. Um the parts people that come into our shop and deliver us parts. I mean, they're always like waving and talking to us, and a lot of them will go through the shop and come in and say hi to our a golden tree, golden retriever uh shop dog, you know, a super sweet Bailey dog. Um, and everyone has to see her. And you know, it's just a place where everyone likes to go to. You know, I I picture them like going to the you know, transmission shop on the corner that it looks like a you know a dungeon, and then they go to some other shops, and in here it's like you know, the the music's cranking, everyone's running around, and yeah, they're like, Oh, hey, thanks for the parts. You know, say hi to the dog, you know, like that's that's the culture, and that's you know, that's what you want. And people go. gravitate towards that, right? Like I think that's proven. And you know, this this person, the parts guy, um, knew, you know, another shop in a neighboring town that the guy wasn't very happy, you know, and he convinced us, like, hey, you should check out these guys. They have we had hiring signs also all over the place, like on the front of the shop, even one for the parts drivers to see. Like we're hiring for a technician. But yeah, so that was really cool. And I really feel like if you set up everything like that, it makes things easier. And that is kind of the culture, the you know, the reputation that that we have and and people most of the people really enjoy that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, well I think there's just a ton of value in being nice, right? You talk about the the parts driver and you know you look at maybe even your vendor relationships and that that parts guy that's coming in or parts woman that's coming in every single day. And how often you interact with them, especially now with like all of the hotshot stuff. Like there's just there's always people coming in and out of a shop. And it's really easy to ignore them or maybe like just you know only complain to them when maybe they brought the wrong part and they probably weren't even responsible for it in the first place, right? Like I I think if you can treat everybody with respect, I think that's kind of the golden rule right of of just you know just because they're the parts driver doesn't mean you treat them with any less level of respect, right? Uh they're trying to just be nice. Like that that makes life so much easier in it in general.

SPEAKER_00

And yeah I mean I I know you know shop owners and other people get mad at parts drivers for taking a while or whatever. And it's just totally ridiculous. Like if you if you change that around and maybe give the parts driver you know some donuts once a month like you know that's that's what you want. I mean they're gonna be like coming out for you and be happy to see you. Like you're I mean people don't do it on purpose but they're literally driving you know people away from their business. You know why would they want to come there if they get yelled at for mixing up parts and because yeah you know those parts guys I mean it's kind of an entry level job that some some do forever and I'm I'm glad they do it. You know um but yeah there's no reason for that.

SPEAKER_01

Well how often like it feels like I've seen this a lot where and this isn't just in our industry I think any anybody kind of has seen this but especially in our industry where you you're in a shop and that arts delivery person or even that's the salesperson whoever it is is just getting an earful for something that wasn't even their fault had they had nothing to do with it but that you know that that manager wants to make sure they're landing their point home on on the dissatisfaction. And granted if it's something that's happened time and time and time again you're trying to to kind of raise it up the flagpole a little bit but that that seems like a really good instance or example that we've all seen in our careers where somebody's just getting screamed at and they had nothing to do with it. And I I've sat on the kind of observed that happen before and just been like what what are you accomplishing here? Like what what what are you doing? You're just ruining this person's day who had no bearing on this whatsoever but you're you just want to get your point home and it's like come on guys.

SPEAKER_00

Mm-hmm yes I've I've worked there before those places yes not very much profile right yeah no not good culture that's the opposite that's I mean that's the people that are trying to leave those places yeah yeah 100% safe they don't feel respected no not a good those people drive me crazy.

SPEAKER_01

So if you're listening to this and you're one of them that drive me crazy I'll uh welcome you to reach out to me and talk to me and and give me a valid reason as to like and there are times where like you're you know in the course of doing business you're gonna get aggravated and things are going to go wrong and I've had to let some people go you know yeah that's you know I had a a shop porter that like once a week we would get a call from random people on the street you know calling in about how bad this kid drove our cars.

SPEAKER_00

That's not great. You know when you hear it for the third time you're like dude you're just not a good driver.

SPEAKER_01

Well it it's tough and I it like I I think that kind of bleeds over into those technician relationships as well or maybe if you do have a parts person uh internally or you've got even that relationship between technicians and and service riders right where if it becomes natural where you're just yelling at each other then again not probably the environment you're looking to to be a part of and I you know growing up even our family shop we had an element of that right where the wrenches were flying and uh F bombs are flying as well and it just it's not it's not overly enjoyable uh by any stretch to to kind of live in that fear and I do think our industry has evolved a lot uh in that regard because I think that was almost every shop back in the day but now it feels like maybe the tide has changed there is some better leadership in shops or not even better leadership just a different type of leadership than than maybe what we grew up with it has come a long way for sure because yeah I haven't had much of the wrench throwers in quite a while thankfully yeah maybe we're all getting smarter I don't know well and there's so much that impacts culture right when we look internally at a shop the things that can frustrate us one that never gets talked about but I always think is fascinating is one that you brought up on the the intro to this uh in our conversation before we hit record which is music and I was I was hoping that the role that me that the role that music plays in a shop is probably way more important than than it gets credit for.

SPEAKER_00

That's true.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah I don't I don't want to bag on country music but yeah what Jay was mentioning was as we were talking about um some shops that we know of like I you know and it's not it's not the country music um but it's the thing of it is if you listen to the same music every single day and everyone doesn't like that you know that's what it is you're basically you're you're not including everybody because you know people like variety and you know if you have a shop with more than two three people chances are there's gonna be someone in there that just wants you know some refreshing music just you know change it up and it's just being respectful it's making the culture good for everyone right and the customers um but it it is funny that you know I worked at the yeah a shop in northern California that it was cut country every single day and I don't know what it was but it was just kind of a dark atmosphere and I even tried to talk to the the owner like can we change it up one day I'm dying here you know um and this new technician that I have he had the exact same scenario so um maybe oh maybe this is it Jay maybe people that listen to country music don't listen to any other kind of music it's country and western that's it so as as as a country music guy I listen to everything like I I it but I like it too point taken at like when I grew up in a shop we we're in rural Wisconsin right there there was one radio station that would actually come in and this is before we had Sirius XM and like all of the satellite radio but like it did get really really old and they didn't even change up this local radio station didn't even change up the playlist so like every day it was the same songs at the same time and it would just drive you absolutely insane. And I mean you just look at like creature comforts of what make your life enjoyable that if you're listening the same radio every single day it it sometimes just nice to mix it up and I I told you before I've got a short a a a a funny story to share in regard to music and it's I I had worked in a shop while I was going to tech school in Chicago. And we had a group that got along pretty good but there was uh it it was a national chain I won't mention the name of the national chain but we worked there and there was this uh kind of our our uh middle aged tech at the time right which is probably about my age now was this guy that had a shaved head he looked like Stone Cold Steve Austin big like kind of ripped guy and he was kind of the enforcer well we had another guy that was about my age or just slightly older than me and he was actually a really good tech he was kind of the smart ass right like he was kind of like the the funny guy and so he would go screw at the radio station and this guy really liked like heavy metal or country was one of the two like he liked one of them and then this other guy would change it to the opposite of what he liked. And they it was one of those things where you could just feel the tension building over the course of like two weeks and I think we've all been there in a shop where you can kind of just feel that tension rising. Oh yeah and it ended with Stone Cold Steve Austin punching this guy like as he's getting into a into a customer's car and I'm like oh my God here's here's this I'm I was 18 years old from small town Wisconsin and I'm working at the shop in Chicago and a guy gets punched within like the first three months I'm there and it's just everybody has to go over and like break him up and it was uh that's great kind of those welcome to the real world moments. And uh luckily it's the only time I ever saw somebody get punched in a shop but it was uh he laid him down uh pretty pretty good and all because of music uh it was the music choice and them screwing with each other.

SPEAKER_00

I mean I I feel like if people you know shop owners mechanics listen to this stuff I mean hopefully they can take this home and just have some variety in their shops. Because it is true.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah if I mean even if you're working in some office and the people listen to the same maybe it's easy listening jazz hour every day you know you're gonna go insane you know and it's not being respectful and yeah you got to kind of ask people hey it's you know today it can be year day to check out the music but yeah that's a great I was I was thinking the movie like 40 year old virgin where um they're they work in like a Best Buy or something and all the TVs are playing like that same kind of uh smooth jazz or whatever like Michael Bolton or something in the background and I I'd like that just gives you nightmares about uh what their days probably looked like yeah those you know I'm just thinking about this technician that just came you know and joined us like those people never asked him if he wanted any other music or anything like that you know yeah I feel like just be considered yeah exactly we keep talking about the music thing forever but I think it's just that's the main point is yeah you're just you're trying to get along with the whole group of people they might not like the same music as you and you know and and you shouldn't be that stuck in your ways too that you have to listen to the same music every day like this is the one kind of music that's gonna be you know yeah well it it it that extends into other things though too when you think about it you talked about how you like a clean shop and you don't want that dungeon feel you want something that feels warm and inviting and I'm sure inevitably you'll get a technician that maybe doesn't clean up a clean up after themselves or is rushing to get a job done on a Friday afternoon and leaves their stall a complete mess because they they need to get out and get home.

SPEAKER_00

And I do think there are times where you're just like it it's going to happen occasionally but if it's like a if it's a trend that's when it becomes concerning yeah uh sometimes Monday morning like this morning if Friday is kind of crazy it can be you know be that's probably the the messiest this place gets but generally yeah we just I mean most sane people like it clean in a shop you know like it's really hard to work on a car if your tools are all over the place and you're like tripping over stuff and you know the air hose reel doesn't work and you know yeah so keeping that goes along with culture as well like keeping a nice tidy really organized shop makes it more efficient keeps everyone happy like you know technicians you know looking at your wrenchway survey you know like shop equipment and stuff like that and that kind of stuff is is big huge you know yeah it's huge because people you know technicians that like actually like their job and want to be able to fix cars you know want all that stuff they want it clean they want good equipment good training you know to have so to help them succeed and help them better themselves it seems like common sense right like you you want it is that environment you would desire that environment but like how do you how do you then have that conversation with a tech that might not be living up to your standard in terms of cleanliness that's why do you bring that stuff up I just had that not too long ago I like to I like to ask the uh hard hitting awkward questions that's that's great you know um this was kind of recent so hopefully I'm seeing things super clearly and not just disgruntled over this guy but um I really feel like if if someone can't you know be a part of the team and kind of get with the program and understand that they're affecting other guys in their business you know or have you ever had a mechanic with an attitude and doesn't want to clean up his own mess he wants like someone else to clean it up because he's too important and he's working on other vehicles that one drives me crazy. Oh man so that that kind of goes along more with yeah the the team the culture you know um fitting in with the group and being respectful but I've I've totally had that and you know this guy was with me for many years and I would constantly we kind of have a uh in bay in our big long shop here where the alignment rack is and then we have a big heavy duty two posts that'll lift like big sprinters up and stuff and whenever he would work back there he would leave all the stuff all over you know for someone else to clean up it drove me crazy.

SPEAKER_01

I would ask him over and over and over again and he would even give me some pushback you know um yeah so uh I don't have that right now everyone really likes it clean and most people you know like um hey you left some rotors back there like oh no problem I'm gonna go clean that up you know I don't want to you know be a jerk to the next guy working over there but um yeah some of the guys just don't care or they you know they have a little chip on their shoulder I don't know but um how much of that comes down to ego though right because I think you you that that example that you just used of like I'm too important to do this small task it's really irritating because when you see when you see kind of that really good tech i I always talk about how much I love a professional tech. And when I say professional they're very clean they get along with everybody that they work with uh they don't always have to be the loudest person in the shop but like kind of that lead by example just really good person it is one of the coolest things but then you do run across occasionally kind of that egocentric tech that you know has too much pride and almost like if you get a couple of those in the shop and those egos start to really clash it can make things ugly pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah that's the problem. Yeah that's when that's when you have to intervene and separate them or get rid of one of them unfortunately yeah I mean that this is a good point on the podcast I mean for technicians that listen to this stuff I mean doing some self-reflecting I mean I know some owners that are like that you know for sure and uh for sure you know I can definitely you know take out the trash I can mop I clean up I'm you know the guys joke around because sometimes I go into this crazy spring cleaning frenzy they're like oh god Gabe's like reorganizing cleaning and yeah it's usually like a big explosion goes off and I get rid of lots of things and I give everyone some flack for you know leaving some stuff around under their shelves or something you know um and everyone cleans up but but yeah I mean these technicians I mean yeah you can be super good at fixing cars you can be uh efficient you could be a great you know diagnostician that can use a lab scope all that stuff but if you're don't get along with a group very well or you know feel like you're above everyone else um that doesn't work out the greatest like I don't have it in my shop where I have a shop foreman you know I have six technicians and a helper so and they they all kind of do a little bit of everything. I mean I definitely have some with their forte you know I I do have the master diagnostic guy that is insane with the um you know lab scopes and you should see his tool card it's it's something of beauty yes yeah and and I have you know atechs that are just master producers um can fix everything and I have guys that are really good at Toyotas and can do some other stuff and they have some you know everyone has there is some forte in there but I don't have one guy that just does all the diag and one guy that just does the engines and one guy you know everyone kind of does everything and I don't there's no leader out there.

SPEAKER_01

So everyone kind of takes care of their own stuff and you know try you try to keep it on equal terms you know so they can get along be a part of the team um share the equipment and you know hopefully put it back how they found it um so I try to you know separate any kind of um you know someone just try you know being trying to trying to be another boss of them you know and just like making more issues basically yeah I a couple things there I love the fact that you lead by example right you're not afraid to go take out the trash you're not afraid to to go clean up if you need to and I think that that kind of sets the stage for everybody else you know then you you're not falling into that same trap where your ego's so big that you can't do that stuff. And I I do think leading by example is such an important piece to that. But then you know just like I don't know what what you talked about with the fact that you've got a shop and I I view a shop a lot of times like a puzzle, right? Where you have to put the puzzle pieces together in order to get the right mix of people because you're probably gonna have some some people that like to talk more than others. You're gonna have others that really don't want to have that conversation. They're there to work and get whatever they need done. And I think some of the best cultures I've seen are where they do have that like perfect mix of people that compliment one another and and not only just their technical skill set but their personalities and and you'll see kind of the the old grumpy tech get along really good with like a a younger person. And I I just think that's one of the coolest things ever where maybe they can help each other out and and for the betterment of the team right like people just and like when they enjoy being around each other it makes life better if you enjoy the people yeah I I like your point on you know being looking at the shop as a puzzle.

SPEAKER_00

And our job is to you know do puzzles every day with the cars right yeah a lot of puzzles but yeah and um it kind of makes me think about I mean I I do spend a lot of time and energy trying to hire and attract the right people but also as you know Jay like there's not a ton of these technicians out there or automotive service professionals to you know work on the counter that know about the cars but also great customer service um you kind of a lot of times have to hire what you can get. And I think fortunately what's happened in my shop time and time in kin, which is not always not always great or at the greatest timing, but if you set up a culture like this and you know make it clear of how you want it you know run and how you want everyone to get along and be equal and make it clear that you're trying to you know create the best shop for them and give them the best opportunity to do all this stuff, like the guys that don't normally fit in kind of like weed themselves out you know time and time again. Or, you know, start to push back for certain things that are just, you know, there's no reason for it. You know, like everything I do is to try to like help the guys, you know, with new equipment or have it cleaner or um, you know, do something to make things more efficient, um, give them more training, like everything is to improve their stuff. And if if you have guys that you know don't want to go along with that or start pushing back, and it stops, you know, and it then it starts affecting other people, and you know, like you were just talking about two negative guys together. Um, because it can, you know, you can even turn positive guys negative if they hear it every day, just like country music every day, it's gonna get negative. Okay, I won't say that anymore.

SPEAKER_01

That that was a great way to tie it back. That that was really, really good. I I do I when you look at that, and I think you hit on a key point there, that so many shops find themselves chasing their tail because they are always desperate to find people, right? And so that inherently just pushes you to maybe make some more of those impulse hires rather than going through the due diligence and and really being intentional. I always talk to shops about kind of having almost that avatar in mind of the the perfect tech and and kind of almost creating that person you're interviewing up against that avatar, because I do think you've got to be crystal clear on what you think is good for your shop because not every shop's gonna be the same either, right? In terms of what they're looking for, personalities and and even technical skill. It it it really I think comes down to the fact that it's really hard to build a culture if you're hiring on desperation, if you're constantly desperate to hire. And you know, I think those that have followed Wrenchway over the years and and kind of our company, you've seen our shift from the general recruiting to more of the development. And I think that was because we saw over time where if you're just constantly trying to hire that master tech and you're really not having success with it, yet you're just constantly doing the same thing over and over and over again. You're chasing your tail. And granted, I I get that I'm painting a rainbow here where you know I'm I'm making it sound like it's really easy just to bring people in and develop them. But if if you've chased your tail at this for years or or decades even, and you're you're constantly finding yourself in that position and you can't seem to get that culture that you want, at what point do you just kind of look at it and say, maybe we should try a different approach here because what we're doing isn't working? I and again, I sorry to go off on my rant, but it it is one of those things where as you're trying to build a culture, but you can't intentionally hire, I I think you're gonna find yourself in a really tough spot.

SPEAKER_00

Um the hiring is such a hard subject, and you know, um like you were saying, it's um it's really hard to find the right people. I mean, I've been doing it for quite some time, and I gotta say, like, even I mean, we're pretty good with doing multiple interviews. We do a working interview pretty much every time. Um, little side note, I I have a lot of people miss out on the working interview. It's pretty interesting. Like people that have great resumes, like, oh my god, and great phone interview or person-to-person interview, they just don't even show up for the working interview. Huge red flag. It's like, what? All right, if you can't even get along with me for a couple hours and get paid to see if you like it here, then it's probably not gonna work. But what I was gonna say is, um, yeah, of course, like you you need to check, you know, certain things off the list right away, you know, just like, is there any red flags with this person as far as like the simple things, you know? Um I don't know if I'd really need to go into that, but you know, just like the basic requirements.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's you know we could do an entirely different episode just on that point because that like even in your position, when I'm looking at that, and I I was just reading a thread on Facebook the other day that talked about working interviews, and there were a lot of texts that were like, listen, I'm just not gonna do a working interview. What I think you've created is kind of that pull type effect where that's what that's the power of culture. If you've got kind of that it our industry is much smaller than I think people think it is, right? And word travels fast. And if there are, you know, you've created some of those internal raving fans that really, really enjoy working for you, or that parts runner that sees that culture each and every day and goes out to a you know, have drinks with their friend and says, Hey, that this shop is phenomenal, like one of the coolest shops you'd ever see. I think then you have a little bit of leverage to say, let's do a working interview because people want to come to work there. I think where people get that wrong is if their culture isn't great and they don't have the nice facilities, they don't have kind of the things that you've you've worked so hard at at really kind of building and maintaining. It is a big ask to to have that tech come in for a working interview. And a lot of a lot of folks are so impatient in their hiring process that they're forget the working interview. Come in, like, sign you you want to sign this paper, like come on in, let's get your benefits set up and let's get you rolling. Uh so I I I think I say all of that just to say I appreciate the fact that you're patient enough to to go through a due diligence process and actually kind of get to know the person a little bit.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I mean what I was kind of leading into before too was you know, you could do yeah, the phone interview, person-to-person interview, working interview. I can tell you right now, like you still don't know how this guy is gonna be in 90 days or a year, okay. That's the big point. So you kind of like, you know, do your due diligence, you know, make sure that he wants to work in a shop like this. You know, you're gonna be working with people. I definitely have that sometimes, you know. Um, some technicians that work at a big flat rate shop or I don't know, maybe a really small shop, they don't aren't really used to working with a bunch of people side by side, and they don't want to have, you know, we have a production meeting every single morning, like lots of meetings, a full shop meeting Tuesday at lunch every week. And some people don't want meetings, they don't want to be talked to, so that's like stuff right away that's gonna weed out some people that aren't gonna fit in this culture.

SPEAKER_01

Um what do you do in your production meeting? I'm just curious to like when you when you're starting off the day with a production meeting, uh what is it, what does that entail?

SPEAKER_00

So it's a couple things, and I'll I mean I'll tell you the like secret of it. I mean, the main you know, we have a big TV on the wall, a big flat screen that shows the schedule for all the technicians for the day and shows all their different cars, and the manager kind of goes real quick over each the guy's schedule, um, and we kind of check out over what they've had before. Um, but what I was gonna say, the you know, the not the secret or the main reason why we do this though is it's a starting point in the day. You know, like this that my guys on the counter are so good, they know everything what's going on in the shop. They know what cars are in the shop, how long they probably have to be working on them, they know the schedule, and they know it's gonna change around throughout the day, too. So it's not like a huge thing to tell the technician what every single car they have, because you know, like the afternoon cars, the three o'clock cars are might get swapped around, you know. But the main thing is to get everyone together. It's the whole crew, except for two of the service advisors are still beyond the counter. Um, but it's just everyone to be there together. They're in a big circle, always joking. Um, my manager is hilarious who does the production meeting. He's like a comedian, and then you know, something he'll come up with something over the weekend, you know, if it not won't be very PC, you know, or it'll just be something off the wall, and the you know, meeting always goes a little sideways at the end, and then that then it's break. Let's get to work, you know. But it's it's it's much better than the organic start where everyone trickling in at different times. There's always the early ones, the late ones. Some of them want to get going to work right away. Some of them are you know working on their own stuff, you know what I mean? Um, yeah from the weekend that they had in there. So this is like a bring everyone together, a start. Um, and I'm usually in that meeting as as well when I'm here. And um, but yeah, and then Tuesday, um the shop buys everyone lunch, and then the service advisors, um, and then the assistant service advisor as well, and all the technicians are in our break room, and and we all eat lunch together, and then just the last 20 minutes um of the lunch hour, um, the manager does more like a technician meeting. Um, just like interesting we well how we did last week, um, how the hours were looking, you know, kind of technician stuff, you know, um, stuff with equipment or tools in the shop. The very last like couple minutes, we do like a technician sharing meeting. So if there was something weird development on a sprinter that we figured out, you know, or something like that, um, what scan tools are working with what cars. We work on a lot of you know later model European cars and things like that. And it's it's hard to figure out um, you know, scan tool stuff to even reset, you know, oil change stuff, um, things like that. Um, but yeah, it's it's important just like the consistency though.

SPEAKER_01

You know consistency and then the fact that you're proactively driving communication. I I talked to a lot of shop leaders about that side too. You you mentioned our voice of technician report. That communication side always comes through in that report of like I'm not being communicated to enough, I'm not being like nobody cares what I think, and and all of those things that if we leave it up to the technician to communicate to the leadership team, it's probably not going to be communicated until you you have that blow up or that dust up that we were talking about earlier. And so I I talked to so many shop managers about that of you know, it's not the technician's job to drive that communication. It is your job to drive that communication. And doing those production meetings, I think is a hugely impactful and helpful way to do that. I love the point that you made about kind of the natural start to your day where it would feel weird if you didn't have it. And then the the lunch part, turning something that's fun into to adding a little bit of productivity conversation to it, I I think is brilliant. That's a that's a really, really nice setup.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I mean, really, all the guys like Tuesday because you know the shop buys a nice lunch. You know, we'll get the way overpriced trendy burgers from Ben Burger, or like we'll order like tons of Olive Garden or like you know, kind of whatever, um, for the whole shop with you know, drinks and everything. So it's you know, they feel like they get treated a little bit, and they usually watch like the funny videos on YouTube for the whole time that we're not having a meeting, you know. What is it, like the fail fail army or something? So they're all just laughing out there, and then yeah, and you know, uh some people are more into the meetings than some of the other ones. You know, I have some people that are just you know totally great and fine with it, and you know, some of the guys, you know, seem like they're okay, okay, is it done yet? It's good to work, you know.

SPEAKER_01

But um it's an interesting dynamic. Uh and even going back to music selection, uh even like the food selection. There we go again.

SPEAKER_00

Like this isn't a music podcast.

SPEAKER_01

I don't want Olive Garden. Uh I in fact love Olive Garden, so uh no no hate to uh to Olive Garden. Uh great, great stuff. But uh no, it it is uh it is cool that you do all of that though. And uh, you know, kind of as we're closing this out, I I always feel like there's so much I can learn from you on the culture side of things just because of of what a great operation you run and and how important kind of that that growth mindset is with with you and your team, and then how important kind of the fun aspects are to you and your team as well, and just you know, really kind of driving that want to work with each other because I I I think we've all worked for places that don't have that, and it it is not a fun place to be. Everybody lives on kind of this tense edge that you know isn't fun. I I love the point that you made about you know, if if there's something that the group can learn from one individual, I I talk a lot about that too, where it's you know, if you made a mistake, that's fine, but let's learn from it. And it's not going to be something that we're gonna shove down your throat. It's something that hopefully we can all learn from and get better from. And and I think that keeps people from hiding stuff too, right? Because if they're not afraid that you're just gonna throw a stick over their head, like it's yeah, something something valuable can be learned out of it.

SPEAKER_00

I I mean I have some of that those differences in personality right now. Like I have um an A-tech that has been with me for geez, nine years now, a young guy that I he was a shop porter that's now you know an A-Tech, and he you know, he talks to me 100% real about everything. So if it was something mistake or how to fix something, there's just no weirdness there. And then I have another guy that has a lot more experience, uh, you know, another a-tech, and it's just not work used to working with a big group of people. So sometimes the meetings and you know, maybe you know, redoing some things, having a mistake is a little bit harder for him just because he's not used to it, you know. But he's he's grown and grown with that, and he he understands that like I you know, I'm not gonna be mad. I don't care. I mean, I was a technician. I just I mean I straight up blew up an engine once, you know, like I've I've had my things. So, but that's no, that's a really good point. Like having you know the communication open and the culture, like getting everyone on the same page that we are trying to, you know, fix these cars and we're trying to make the customers really happy, we're trying to make this product that is really good in the shop to you know, to put it out into the into the public. If we're all on that same page, you know, peep it's easier for the guys. Um, but yeah, I was I was thinking about when um you were mentioning the technician sharing thing. For for my example and experience with that is you know, being a shop owner for you know, coming on 25 years now and being a mechanic my whole life, I've seen a lot of different car problems, right? Like when you have six technicians and you only hear about the ones that stump them, you remember those. But my technicians, if they're just, you know, if my if another guy's busy doing suspension and an engine job, whatever, he's not gonna hear about you know, the crazy car that we had that came from another shop and three different guys in the shop in this shop here tried to fix it and we finally figured it out, you know, he's not gonna hear about that, you know, which is a bummer. So that's why you you want to share and tell everyone, like, hey, especially if it's like, I mean, Toyotas are a thing, we're super good with them. But if there's something new that pops up on those Toyotas, it's really important for all of us to share it because we want to be like the Toyota professionals in the area, you know, and keep that going. So, yeah, that stuff is yeah, huge benefit to the shop and everyone, and yeah, keeps that keeps that good culture stuff going. The sharing.

SPEAKER_01

Uh, I I love that approach and and love everything you do, culture related. This week's episode of Beyond the Wrench is brought to us by Jasper Engines and Transmissions. Okay, your customer's engine or transmission has failed, but now is not the time for them to trade their vehicle. Not without a working engine or transmission. Besides, would they have kept their vehicle another three to five years if their engine or transmission had not let them down? If you answered yes, then Jasper Engines and Transmissions is your choice to give your customer's vehicle new life and many thousands of miles of enjoyable driving performance. When considering the high cost of a new or newer used vehicle, there's a pretty good case to be made for replacing a drivetrain component that has failed or is delivering poor performance. Rather than trading their car, truck, van, or SUV, install a quality, remanufactured Jasper product for less than your customer would have to invest in a new vehicle or a newer used vehicle. Check out their website at jasperengines.com to learn more about the money-saving value of Jasper. As we get uh close to closing out this podcast, I do have some quick hitting fun questions for you that in no way did I prepare you for ahead of time. Perfect. But they're very easy. They're very, very easy. I'll I'll uh I'll make sure they're easy. But uh first question What is your favorite type of food?

SPEAKER_00

Uh probably Mexican.

SPEAKER_01

I I wish I should have a whiteboard here with the tally of the different types of food that people answer that question because Mexican would win in a landslide, and I'm I'm here for it. I love Mexican food.

SPEAKER_00

So that's gonna say you definitely probably don't by far don't get as good a Mexican food over there, I imagine, because you're just so far from Mexico. I mean, we're we're we're right on top of California, you know, and and California has some incredible Mexican food.

SPEAKER_01

We've got a couple solid Mexican spots, but anytime I'm traveling, uh, and if it's anywhere where I know they're gonna have good Mexican food, I make sure to go out of my way to get said good Mexican food. Uh, I will say I had this debate with my wife once. There's a uh kind of a fancier sushi joint in O'Hare in in the airport. And she's like, Oh my gosh, I'm not eating there. It's uh sushi in an airport. That's disgusting. And I said, Well, why do you think uh a high-end sushi restaurant in Chicago would get their sushi? Well, they're gonna fly it there. So, like it's probably even fresher at the airport. And so we go back and forth. Every time we go past that restaurant, I stop and and get some sushi. Uh, but it is funny with geographic uh constraints that that's what it led to in my mind. Uh, second question: what was your first car?

SPEAKER_00

It was a 66 Volkswagen Beetle.

SPEAKER_01

Was it a cool one or one that was like uh like barely running?

SPEAKER_00

I bought it with no engine, it didn't even have an engine. I towed I I towed it home and uh yeah, I did everything wrong like several times. And yeah, check this out. I like I got a bus engine, which was a 1600, so the 66 be I think came with a 1200 maybe. I don't remember all the those cars. I love those cars, but so yeah, the swing axle, the transmission didn't fit the bigger like 1600 bell housing, but being like a I think I was 15 or something like that, I just drove those big four bolts that put the engine next to the transmission. I just kept tighten those babies and just jammed the flywheel right into the transmission. It the engine couldn't even turn. That's how you learn, right?

SPEAKER_01

That's uh that's there's some good good learning lessons. Uh, did yours have heat?

SPEAKER_00

When you go uphill, yeah, you know, and it gets hot.

SPEAKER_01

One of my good friends in high school had one of those, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is in Wisconsin, not the most fun thing to drive in the winter.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's probably pretty pretty bad out there.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, not fun. All right. Last fun question for you. Are you a uh morning or uh morning person or a uh stay up late person?

SPEAKER_00

I'm definitely a morning person.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah? What time are you getting up?

SPEAKER_00

For sure. Um six or earlier. Nice. You know, this morning I think it was earlier. Um yeah, like my I guess my clearest state of mind and most productive is in the morning. Uh I mean at the shop here I typically work Monday, Tuesday. Um, you know, sometimes a little bit on Wednesday, but I just feel like in the mornings, you know, from you know, six o'clock to noon, I can just get an incredible amount of stuff done, I feel like. Um just lots of decision making, lots of emails, marketing, you know, all the stuff that I do do. And then in the afternoon, I like if if my wife Becca asks me to do something like eight o'clock, I'm like, sorry, it's training. I'm just yeah, lethargic. I can read or watch TV in the evening. I'm just yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's changed with me over the years, where I I'm definitely more inclined to go to bed a little bit earlier now. And uh the amount of sleep I get now compared to 10 years ago is f significantly less. Like I I think if I go to bed at nine, I'm almost guaranteed to be up at like three or three thirty, which is a really weird thing. And then I try to force myself to go back to sleep and it never works. And then I'm just I I should just get up and start working. And so I that's what I'll typically do is just start working, and then it'll be like 9.30 in the morning. I'll be like, oh my gosh, I am exhausted. Like, well, yeah, you've been up since 3.30 in the morning.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, I know that's early.

SPEAKER_01

That's not an everyday thing. That's uh that's like a yeah, like once every other week thing, and then I just drag the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_00

And then coffee is like the best thing in the whole world. So of course, waking up to coffee is this you know phenomenal thing that we get to do every day.

SPEAKER_01

I will say going back to the geography thing, you in the Northwest love coffee at a whole different level. I I thought I like coffee and I do like good coffee, but I remember I went uh, this is probably a couple years ago, I had meetings. This was Seattle, but I had multiple meetings over the course of the day, and it was it went from like morning meeting coffee, like mid-morning meeting coffee, lunch coffee. And I remember I was meeting somebody for like a happy hour, and that was coffee. And I'm like, I'm I don't know if I'll ever fall asleep. This is all like high rev coffee, right? This is this is not like uh this is not watered down stuff. This is you're you're you're getting the good stuff.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, we drink a lot of coffee here at the shop, too. That's actually every uh annually I'll do like a yearly meeting in the beginning of January, and that's one of the funny like statistics or numbers that I you know talk to the guys about because we have you know a coffee service, and then we also like the shop buys everyone coffee Friday morning from Starbucks, which is quite expensive for the whole shop, you know. So like I forget how many thousands of dollars we spend on coffee once a year for the shop, but it's it's something else.

SPEAKER_01

Another perk, another perk.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, another perk. I forgot. Yeah, and then at home me and my wife are crazy. Like fresh ground coffee, you know. We like like organic, like you know, super special. We spend tons of money on it. It's like a it's like a drug deal down at the natural food store, you know, getting some some really dark, oily beans and grinding them. Oh my god, we're crazy.

SPEAKER_01

I yeah, I I've I've got I've definitely got to step my coffee game up, uh, and and uh get the good stuff. But uh this is it's been such a fun conversation. You and I always have fun conversations. I I love the fact that you you'll go with my flow on the podcast, and really coming into this one, it was like let's talk about culture and we just had an absolute blast. Like, this is always so fun to talk to you, and and I appreciate you coming on. Hopefully, it's not another three years before we do it again.

SPEAKER_00

Uh but man, absolute pleasure.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yes.

SPEAKER_00

Thanks a lot, Jay. I really appreciate your time and having me on here again. Hopefully, we can, you know, hopefully we help some people out.

SPEAKER_01

I hope so too. Thank you, my friend. That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode, please show your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews on Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, did you know Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by the Wrenchway team? Wrenchway is an online community dedicated to promoting and improving automotive and diesel careers. We help technicians find the best jobs to work at, and we also help auto, diesel, and CTE instructors get more support from local industry. You can learn more by visiting wrenchway.com.

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Jay Goninen

Host