Beyond the Wrench

Still on the Floor. Still Building the Industry.

• Jay Goninen

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Anthony Calhoun is an ASE Master Technician with 25+ years in the industry, CEO of A.W.C. Consulting LLC, and author of “Why Techs Leave and How to Keep Them.” In this episode, Anthony walks through what each role has taught him about where the industry is falling short. He covers the mindset that helped him grow as a young tech, the advice he gives to those coming up now, and what pushed him to write a book and build Apex Tech Nation.

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SPEAKER_01

But as far as a technician, I just sat back and looked at what I could build to actually train and really assist a lot of these young guys that struggle with reading and comprehension or pull up a schematic and get terrified. What are all these lines? It's a foreign language. And so that's what I built the app.

SPEAKER_02

Beyond the Wrench with Jay Ganinen from Renchway.

SPEAKER_00

Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench. My name is Jay Ganinen, and I am your host. Today's guest is Anthony Calhoun, an ASC master technician with more than 25 years of experience, who still works in a high-volume GM dealership every day. Beyond the shop, Anthony is the founder of AWC Consulting, author of Why Techs Leave and How to Keep Them, and creator of Apex Tech Nation. In this episode, we're going to discuss a lot of different things, industry related. And what I I believe I'm really going to love about this conversation is just that true, candid feedback on the industry and how maybe we can better understand technician satisfaction as a whole. Welcome to the show, Anthony.

SPEAKER_01

Well, thank you, Jay. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00

So you are where are you located at?

SPEAKER_01

Cincinnati, Ohio.

SPEAKER_00

Cincinnati, Ohio, born and raised?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah. So uh native Ohio. Uh is it? Do you say Ohioan or what what do we say there? I guess Ohio. Just native, yeah. Native to Ohio. We'll we'll stick with that. But uh really interesting background as I got to read about what you're doing, and so much of what you're doing, I think, is for the betterment of the industry and really appreciate all

Anthony’s Background

SPEAKER_00

of that. But where did all of this start at? What got you into automotive to begin with?

SPEAKER_01

Um, well, honestly, I just kind of knew growing up I needed to pick some type of skill set to kind of, you know, didn't come from a good background. And I knew everybody around me, didn't really, you know, have a good education. I don't want to say good education, but you know, I knew my way out. I had to really pick some type of skill trade and go to vocational school. It was, you know, free through high school. And I picked carpentry and automotive. I didn't know anything about either. Ended up in automotive, and it's like, this ain't that bad. And you know, I started in vocational school and graduated that in 01. That's where I started my first dealership in placement. And I took the ASAP, GM ASAP program right after that, and graduated that in 03, and I've been at it ever since.

SPEAKER_00

Uh, that's that's really cool. What what was it that appealed to you? And kind of going back, uh you talked about wanting to work with your hands. Was it because you thought cars were cool? Was it because you're like, hey, I just know that I I could probably be pretty good at this? Like, what give me an idea of like kind of what went through your mind as you're making that decision?

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean, honestly, I was in a high school that was kind of getting in trouble in, and you know, I just decided vocational school sounded like where I could learn something, learn some type of skill set. It really didn't even have to be with my hands. And you know, I just I just picked carpentry automotive. Like I said, it was not supposed to. I didn't know anything about a car besides gas and go before that. I never hit a nail on carpentry. I just um, you know, it was something just telling me to go, I need to learn a skilled trade, and you know, and it worked, right?

SPEAKER_00

Like you you've now been in it for a long time. In those early days, that's something we talk a lot about is is how do we keep more more of our young people in the industry. Uh, did you find that tough when you go into a shop environment? Or was it did it feel natural to you? Uh it like give me an idea of what those early days look like.

SPEAKER_01

Well, honestly, when I started, yeah, it was it was definitely different than what it is today. So I started as a you know, an oil change, you know, basically changing oil. And all the older guys, it was it was definitely a different time. Nobody wanted to help you. Um, and it was just a time where I hate kind of giving too many details, but I've had, you know, I was they'd almost make fun of you, you know. They'd be like, oh, it's just a quick luber. You know, it was a it's a big shop, you know, 25, 26 technicians. And I'm sure they're used to seeing a bunch of young guys coming and going. Um and yeah, it was it was definitely rough coming into it, but like I said, I kind of had a rough background, so it didn't really bother me any. Um, I just knew this is this is kind of what I'm doing, and this is, you know, I just locked in and and got at it. And you know, eventually you'll you know, you earn the respect and and kind of move up and stuff like that. But yeah, it's much different nowadays. You know, nobody's really has that mentality. I mean, this was back in 01. Um, everybody, all all the older guys were like specialty guys. So, you know, if you you got a drivability guy and you're what to learn drivability, oh, they you know, they think you're taking their work, and you know, they try to complain about it. It was definitely and it was the same thing then, you know, getting in, they would all tell you, don't get in this industry, like you know, get out, don't do it, don't do it. And you know, it's just unfortunate because it's it's been like that as far as I can remember, yeah, and it's only gotten worse, really.

SPEAKER_00

You know, so it's well, and I think there's some level of i it's almost it's frustrating to me, right? Because when I see that cycle, a lot of times some of those, uh especially when you and I were starting off in the business, I think some of those older guys then were kind of brought into the business that that way too, right? They were brought in kind of that old school way, figure it out, uh, you know, kind of every man for themselves, and and kind of just that different mentality to where it they they didn't know any different, right? To to treat the new person any different. And over time, I do see the same thing you do, where I I get the sense that maybe we're starting to head in the right direction, where maybe we are taking a little more interest in young people and and really maybe how we how we talk to them and how we interact with them and being a little bit more intentional. I I think there's always going to be that, hey, you know, let's give each other a hard time, or you you know, like some of that kind of ribbing, but I do think there are times where maybe that kind of crossed the line a little bit too, right? Where maybe it's uh it's a little too much.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it was definitely too much. And I'm not not trying to knock those guys. I still know a lot of those guys, and you know, they're great guys, but there's something about when you pack a garage full of 20 men, you know, it it's you, you know, you uh you joke a lot, you kind of, you know, I don't want to say hazing, but you know, the back then that's kind of what happened when you, you know, when you started, it was kind of you know, you you had to kind of earn your respect. And I don't think it's as far as when I said I got it got worse, I don't think that's got worse, that's got way better. Like everybody I know now loves helping each other, they love you know helping the young guys grow. But as far as industry and the amount of people that you know are actually coming into it, uh like school sizes are cut in half, you know, it's just got a bad stigma. And it it's really gotta change if we wanna keep having kids coming in this industry.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I agree with you. Now, I I do want to kind of dive into going through the course of your career. When did you feel comfortable going into the shop in terms of skill set and ability to to properly repair a vehicle? You know, I I think it takes a little bit of time, and especially for you, maybe not starting off in the industry and and kind of working your way in. Uh, how long did it take you to truly feel comfortable and confident in in your work?

SPEAKER_01

Honestly, it it didn't take too long. And that's really but it was a different time. And I the ace the GM ASAP program, programs like that I couldn't speak highly enough of. I feel like I came out, yeah. I feel like I came out, and not only are you learning the new the technology of that day, like I came out of that program knowing about stuff that the guys who's been there for 20 years didn't even know was going on, you know. Yeah, and programs like that I just you know couldn't brag or boast enough about.

SPEAKER_00

But and I there's times where I feel like they get a bad rap uh for you know, if if maybe they're bringing a young person into into the shop and uh they don't know everything right off the bat, which still kind of blows my mind that we even have that expectation that that a young person's going to know everything right off the bat because frankly they don't have the experience yet. But that type of program, when you're when especially when you're when you're make specific, right? You're you're going to that General Motors program, you're you're learning how to work on that stuff, right? And you're learning kind of some of that specific, and like you talked about the latest and greatest, and and some of the stuff that uh that maybe you wouldn't get otherwise. And I I I'm really happy to hear that gave you that confidence early on, because I I think that's something that a lot of young technicians really struggle with.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I see it a lot. And you know, really like when you let's say you get a flow chart, you know, diagnostic flow chart, it it will overwhelm you if you don't know you know the basic just basic testing. Because you know, OEM, they may have a flow chart that's 12 steps long, but it's got five steps in between each step. And once you understand how everything works, you know what a short the ground test is, short the voltage test is, you can skim that flow chart and just process it and say, okay, it wants me to go do a short the ground, short the voltage test on these circuits. Where somebody who you know don't know any of that, they you know they go step by step by step by step. So a lot of the young guys I teach, and you know, I'm like, here, I'll I'll print out instructions, find them videos or whatever, like here, study this at home. No, know what all these tests are, and you'll be way more confident and way quicker. Um but also like when I started, it was a different time. I mean, if you think about like just a keyless entry system, like back then you had a remote control door lock receiver, a key fob, and a you know, body control module. Now you got you know nine different antennas, four other modules. You know, it's it's crazy. Yeah, the amount of complexity has changed so much. It it is more difficult for a young guy to come in and just grasp everything. And you know, I remember I you know, I've watched a whole thing of like serial data just grow and grow, you know, and it's I remember every time it changed, we're like, oh man, oh man, and it's it's only gotten more complex. And it's when I started, it it was way simpler. You know, you could just come in, hustle, and you could out-hustle your lack of experience. And nowadays it's it's harder and harder to do.

SPEAKER_00

So it's yeah, there I I just remember when I started my career, and I I always talk about this publicly that I was not a good technician, right? And I I almost take pride in that because it felt like my position in the industry should be different than that, but I really have that appreciation for good technicians. One of the things I struggled with and I came out of school about the same time you did, was being terrified of making a mistake, right? So in in that shop setting, it feels like it's so public within the shop if you screw up. And you

Don't Overthink It Mindset for Young Techs

SPEAKER_00

I think in a lot of cases for young people put a lot of pressure on themselves because it's so visible when you make a mistake in a shop, or it feels like everybody knows about it and you get a you you know, going back to getting the hard time, you screw something up. Well, you're talking about the advancement in technology and the computers. I remember back then being like, if I fry an ECM, I am I might be fired, right? Like I this is this is not gonna go well. And so I was always so terrified to make a mistake. Yet there's some level of where you almost have to make some mistakes to learn, right? Like you you have to go through some things, and and so I I'd be curious as to maybe what your advice is to a young person that might be going through a similar experience to me, where maybe they they are in that tough spot right now where and we know how that goes, right? Like you make a mistake and it seems to snowball, and there's like more and more, you know, it kind of one mistake builds on another. And I've seen this over and over with young techs where I'm like, just take a step back, take a breath. Uh, you it's not the end of the world, it's fixable, right? And it's so I'd just be interested to hear kind of your mindset or maybe what you did so well there to be able to kind of get through that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I I'll tell you, you know, the guys I said that were rough on you, they gave me so like I just simple information, right? I asked one guy, what's the what's the best tip you could give me? And he said, just don't overcomplicate things. He said, you know, everything every time he sees somebody struggle, they're overthinking or overcomplicating. And I see that a lot, you know, with young guys, it's just hard for them to make a decision, especially if it's like a control module or something. You know, you you said you were worried about frying control modules. Well, when you got to price one out or send one up for warranty, you know, you're because it's really just a process of elimination, and you're you know, you do everything you can up until that point. And when I started, GM paid 0.3 to diagnose a vehicle. That's all you you had 18 minutes, they've expanded that you know up into an hour at this point. But you in 18 minutes, you're you gotta make a decision, and that's what those, you know, the older guys taught me is dude, if you don't make a decision on it, you can't just sit here and stare at it. And I think management expectations has more to do with that than the actual you know technician because uh you know, if you're hiring a a young guy, you should expect he's gonna break some stuff. He's going, you know, we we all do it, you know. It and I my dealership didn't really, you know, there honestly there wasn't that fear. Um, you know, they knew that's huge. Yeah, they knew there was, you know, mistakes were gonna be made. And as long as you learn from it and move on, you know, that that's the big thing. If you keep making the same mistake over and over and over.

SPEAKER_00

That's different.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and uh, and of course there was one-time policies, you know, you leave a wheel loose and return it to the customer. That's you know, unfortunately, moving on at that point, but that also made you double check your wheels, you know what I mean, and stuff like that. So it's there's there was really I can't say I really had any fear of messing anything up. I kind of had that expectation set that hey, you're you're gonna make mistakes. And you know, the the biggest it it'll hold a technician back a lot if they're you know, if they're always worried about if they're making the right decision or you know, if they break something. It's I'll tell you what, trim panels right now, the clips are stronger than the plastic. I mean, it's it's you can't get some of these trim panels off without cracking, you know what I mean? And you get guys that crack them and you're just like, Well, I I don't know what to tell you. They put this clip in there that's still ain't coming out. So it's you're you're gonna break stuff, things are gonna happen, and management just needs to have a realistic expectation of that. And you know, because if you got guys scared of messing up, then they're not gonna want to make yeah, they're not gonna want to make decisions, they're not gonna wanna, you know, they're gonna struggle for 20 minutes trying to take a trim panel off, which honestly the best way to do it is rip it off like a band-aid. But it's and I, you know, you'll see guys, and I'll just come over and snap it off real quick. Yeah, like you gotta do it quick, like a band-aid, or it'll let me use this fancy tool in my hands.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But you know, they're scared they're gonna break it. So it's and yeah, I don't know. It's I can't say I really had that fear, but uh I think I had a good, good shop, good management, and uh I that's definitely the reason.

SPEAKER_00

Well, for shop leaders that are listening to this, that is such a key thing to understand. Is just we had an author on named Dan Bradison, uh, probably a year or two ago, and he wrote a book called Seeds of Culture, and uh one of the chapters talks about psychological safety and the need to feel like you're going to like somebody's gonna have your back, essentially, right? That you if you screw up, which we're all human, it's going to happen regardless of who you are, you're gonna screw up something at some point. That if they feel safe in that environment, they're far more likely to be productive and happy and kind of everything you're looking for in a shop. So for those leaders that are listening to this right now, I think that's such an important lesson is that you have to kind of create that safety net a little bit and communicate that and help them understand so that when they do inevitably make a mistake, they they're already gonna beat themselves up enough, right? That like in most cases, they're gonna feel really, really bad about it and really beat themselves up. And in a lot of cases, I think they beat up their own confidence and their own kind of almost self-worth, right? Where they they maybe don't think uh that highly of themselves at that point. And the more you can kind of create that bridge to understand that you know what, just like you said, if you make a mistake, learn from it and then get better. Uh and just don't make a catastrophic mistake that's going to get you in trouble. And a lot of that cat like the stuff that we're so worried about is in a process. And and you know, we talked about I was talking to somebody about digital inspections um and video inspections uh a week or two ago, and they talk about how important it was in their brain to have kind of that process in which they go through a car and they do the same, you know, they start the same tire every single time and they're doing the same kind of process every single time. And then over time, that habit just becomes a really key part of your daily operation for you personally, and then you're not going to miss those things. But at first, you're probably gonna have to think about it, right? You're gonna have to think through did I do this? Did I did I torque the lug nuts? Did I put oil back in the car? Did I do, you know, all of those things that could result in something really bad happening. I I think for those young folks listening too, just be really intentional about doing that well. And and even for those of you starting off on the loob rack, sometimes that gets that kind of gets a bad name too. And you're like, you need to learn how to do this stuff really well. And if you can do that, that's going to help you in your career.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Like you, you know, you said you were kind of fearful of breaking, and that's how a lot of guys do come in already, right? They're they're gun shy to make a decision, they don't want to, you know, they're scared they're gonna break something. So if you're if you don't let them know from the get-go, look, I know you're gonna make mistakes. I mean, you're you're paying these guys to make decisions, yeah. And don't get me wrong, you they should have the roper or the proper um supervision and and training, but at the same time, if if you're you know beating them down every mistake they make, they're you know, they're gonna lock up and not wanna not want to make any decisions, which you like I said, I came up where you had 18 minutes to make a decision. You know, you you gotta that's wild. Yeah, you gotta process it, you gotta and you're taking in a lot of information quick and you're making a decision in 18 minutes. And that's that that's the mentality guys had too. Like you want to pay us 0.3 to diagnose, you're gonna get we'll do our best. We're gonna eliminate everything we can in 18 minutes, and then you're getting a decision.

SPEAKER_00

That's that's do you think that led to some of the part swapping that we saw kind of for a while? I don't know if it's as bad now as it used to be, but there there were times where you would see, like, okay, uh rather than die e this properly, I'm going to throw parts at it because I'm just not going, you know, if I'm not going to get paid for it, like I'm I'm gonna make this decision quick without truly validating the kind of your diag. It felt like that was a really big issue for a while.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, I so most of the guys I know take pride in their work and they know here, you may put 10 blower motors in this same year making model vehicle, but that one you don't do the basic test, you know, check your power ground is the one that's gonna bite you. It's gonna be something that's not a blower motor. So it's just an easy example. But there could be, you know, a lot of guys out there that just don't want to do the basic checks. As far as like part swapping, I know sometimes, you know, let's say you have an issue, you think it's a mass airflow sensor, you may swap it off another vehicle real quick and go drive it, you know, to see if it clears it up. But there should, I mean, I couldn't imagine like warranty. If you got a if you got too many parts, you're you're gonna throw a lot of flags. And you know, where I cut like the dealership world, you can't really just throw parts on stuff. If if you got a problem with just you know putting three or four parts on a vehicle trying to fix a problem, you're it's not it's not gonna work. Like there, there's all types of warranty flags that that get thrown. But I mean, the big thing is like I said, it it don't take long to do a you know your basic electrical test. And I think the young guys coming in, if they just spend a weekend, you don't have to go, if you don't go to trade school, if you don't, you know, that's fine, but at least spend a weekend learning what a short the ground is, what a short the voltage is, what you know resistance and load testing is, and how to perform those tests, and things will start making sense a lot quicker. You'll you'll read a flow chart, you know, skim through it, and you're like, oh, okay, I just need to go perform these tests. And it don't take you know, it's not going to take you an hour. And that's I think that's the big thing. A lot of guys see these big flow charts because these are written by you know engineers and technical writers. They're none of them's even written by a flat rate perspective. So, like when I read a flow chart, I understand what it's asking, and I'm looking for the easiest point of access. So, for instance, just one I had last week, I think I even posted something about it. But the flow chart was to remove the HVAC control head to do testing from there. Well, to do that, I got to remove the radio, I got to remove part of the dash, and I go down a little bit, I start looking at the schematics in a flow chart, and there's testing being done at the BCM. So I look at that. I got quick access to the BCM connector. So I go right to the BCM connector, I do all my testing there, and you're done. And really, when you go to hands-on training like 4GM, a lot of the instructors will even tell you the best thing you can do is be able to understand this stuff, look at a schematic, redo, read a description operation, and make your own flow chart. And that's that's something that I think would help the industry a lot if OEM, yeah, if OEM would actually start writing these things from a flat rate perspective, you know, and just take a step back, just be like, oh, what's the quick quickest way for a technician to eliminate the things he needs to eliminate to make a decision? And I if you got parts just getting tossed to stuff, that would probably help that a lot.

SPEAKER_00

Well, and I think your example there is a great example because that is one you uh at some level, I think you get taught to follow that flow chart so much that it it almost stands in in the way of common sense, right? Where in that exact scenario, rather than tear everything apart, you went to that point of least resistance, which is finding finding a connection that you can really easily access and understand what it is that you need to understand from there, right? And you know, I think that is another opportunity for young people, and again, that's one of those things that comes with experience too, right? Where absolutely you you you learn, you know, I think school so much for theory and and really understanding how things work, and then as you go in and you're like your brain automatically works in that way now because you you've you know 25 years of experience, like you you've wired, yeah. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's it's wired that way. And I think going back to what we were talking about with the external pressures and even internal pressures of a young person coming into the industry, at times they're worried about being in trouble because they didn't follow a flow chart, and sometimes that gets in the way of what common sense thinking is, right? Where it's it's not necessarily that they don't want to think about it critically. Uh, I had a guest on probably six or so months ago where we talked about that too, where you know, we I would have been terrified when I was 20 years old to really print off a um a schematic and truly follow it and try to understand the system because in my eyes, it felt like I was standing around my toolbox and was it looked like I wasn't doing anything, but in reality, it would have been really smart to just sit down and understand the system and what you're dealing with so that you you can have a game plan of a you know, can kind of a plan of attack in general uh to go after. And and I again going back to that psychological security piece where if you feel safe enough to be able to do that and do it where you're not getting made fun of, or that you like you, you're not getting called up by your management of standing around, you know, that kind of stuff. Uh, if you just have the confidence, say, this is why I'm doing it. I need to understand the system before I start diving into it. You know, I think I think there's so much value in that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, you really do. When I and that's you know, before when we talked, when I was in management, that's one thing I'd you know, I'd ask guys in an interview and they would look at me kind of weird. I'm like, you know, how is your reading comprehension? And they'd I'm not coming in this to read. What do you mean I'm coming in this to work on cars? I'm like, well, you the better you yeah, it it really is. And the amount of time you spend on the computer nowadays compared to 15 years ago, you know, whether it's reading description operations, looking at schematics, um, flow charts, or just doing paperwork is has increased dramatically. So yeah, uh and when you when you're new, schematics are like a foreign language, you know. If you yeah, it's you know, guys get overwhelmed just by looking at schematics and even the flow charts, like all of that stuff. That's what managers kind of need to understand is it's as overwhelming as it would be, you know, to a 20-year-old as it would be for you to pull up schematics and pull up flow chart. You're probably gonna look at it like I have no clue what to do. You know what I mean? You're gonna be overwhelmed. Like, what do you want me to do with this? Well, that's it. That's that's what they're thinking at the same time. They don't have that experience, they got you know very minimal training at that point. And this stuff is it's not easy, it's only getting more complex. I mean, just think of the future, you know, everything's autonomous vehicles, it's it's it's gonna be crazy.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's I that I really enjoyed that part of our our pre-meeting to this podcast, and your your perspective on the importance of reading comprehension.

ASE’s Are Industry Standard

SPEAKER_00

We we talked through ASEs, right? And yeah, uh say what you will about ASE, but I really appreciated your perspective on the fact that if nothing else, it shows some level of reading comprehension and an ability to truly understand what you're reading. And as simple as that sounds, that is not as common as we'd like to think, right? That you're actually absorbing the information that you're reading, and uh, and that is a huge part of the job today. Like you've got to be able to read and understand what you're reading, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I mean, as far as ASC goes, I mean, there has to be an industry standard. So my butt, my buddy owns a barber shop. Tell me why, tell me why nobody can cut my hair without a barber's license, you know. Crazy, yeah. Think about that. And you know, I thought about that more and more at like you said from our pre-interview. And I'm I never really knew ASE had a big negative thing going on, right? I don't really pay attention to it. All the technicians I know, they they want their ASCs, you know, they want to grow, they want recognition from the industry, it's seen as the industry standard. You know, with GM, you have to be 100% trained, you have to have them. And I just started thinking like, is there really negative talk about ASEs? You know, I've heard a little bit here and there, but nothing, I didn't think it was like a major trend going on. And I just thought I'm like, that's actually crazy. I'm really surprised it's not like a law that before you can even rotate my tires, right? You're putting families at risk that you gotta have some type of license. I mean, barbers gotta have them, cosmetologists gotta have them, my loan officers gotta have them, and you're you know, you're you're touching somebody's vehicle that it's going to be traveling 70 miles an hour with a family in it, you know, and families all around you. So it yeah, it's amazing. It's wild. Yeah, it really is.

SPEAKER_00

It really is. And I do think that devalues our industry, right? It it when when you look at that through that lens that you know, I I give the classic example of in my family's automotive shop, we had this lady drive in from 15 plus miles away and say, Man, my my car's really shaking and I don't know what's going on. Well, we had a tech throw it up on the hoist, and the ball joint literally was not connected to the control arm. It fell out. And so we brought they brought her out into the shop and said, like, what you know, what I just want to show you. Like, this looks like it's new. What happened? Well, my son replaced the ball joint and uh apparently didn't do it right. And so you look at that, and that's a prime example of one where an unskilled or uneducated person did a job that maybe they watched the YouTube video on and they oh, I can I can do this, I I can I can do this. And it's so scary that there are vehicles on the road like that. And to your point, how in the world is that even possible that just some random person can just start tearing into their vehicle, which is, you know, you get a multi-thousand-pound piece of iron going down the road with families in it, and there's no governance over that, like it just absolutely mind-blowing to me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I mean, that's what I said when I thought about it. Just, you know, the fact the barbers got to have a license to cut my hair. Now, here, nobody's gonna stop me from cutting my hair in my house. You know, I don't I'm I don't think anybody should. If somebody wants to work on their car in their garage, I I pray they know what they're doing. And I we get we get cars that come in all the time, like you said. Somebody else, you know, they they put their own brakes on and get into long stories on that, but it it it don't go well. A lot of stories on there, yeah, yeah, for sure. It don't go well, and it cost them a lot of money, you know, to get it fixed. They could have just paid to get it fixed, but yeah, to me, like any facility that's you know in the business to work on your car, I don't, you know, I started thinking about like I'm very surprised that there isn't any type of you know license that you have to have to do that. That to me, that's if my buddy opened a barber shop and he's got to have a barber's license to cut my hair, but there's no industry standard for the automotive industry, it's it's crazy. Yeah, that's how I always took ASC. It's just uh and this, you know, it's the industry standard. If you want to showcase that you can pass ASEs, which you should, that should be a goal as a technician.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, I I was unaware of all the negative trending you know talk on that, but that's definitely I think any topic you put online, yeah, like anything you somebody I guarantee, whatever your opinion is on whatever topic, you can put it out there somewhere, and you're going to find people that want to argue it. So there's just some level of I think the negative carries the weight there. But going back to your point about not even the certification piece or or anything along those lines, but uh that's another piece with young people that I think is important to to re-emphasize. And even to be honest, some of our experience techs of it's not just a brake job, right? Like that is a if if you screw that up, you're putting somebody's life in danger. And I I when I was in a shop, that's all I viewed it as was it's I'm just slapping you know pads and rotors on this car, and you you kind of get into that mode where you become numb to what the reality is if that were to go wrong, right? Like I just think there's there uh we take that for granted at times, and I think that's when it can sneak up on you and bite you as if if uh if maybe you take it for for granted too much.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and just just the simple stuff of a tire rotation, you know, it's and it usually when that happens, so I've looked up stories to show other technicians. And when I started in the industry, we had a bulletin board above our urinal, like a little phone board. And our manager would print off articles all the time technician charged for manslaughter. And and while we were in the urinal, we're reading articles of you know, like wow, that's crazy. And usually when a wheel does fly off, it usually just kills some other family, you know what I mean? Like it it yeah, it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

We've I've read about that a lot, like hops across the interstate and hits a uh innocent passerby, right? Like somebody has nothing to do with it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's heartbreaking. It it really is, yeah. And it's it's like all the technicians I train, which I want to kind of jump off the side, but just on that topic, yeah. I've I've seen guys do it, and they'll like when they put when they do a tire rotation and put a wheel on, they'll run the lug nuts almost all the way down. And I always tell them, dude, put the lug nuts on two or three threads. That way, by the time if if you leave a wheel loose, you're gonna know it before you get out of the shop. You know, they're and that seemed to help a lot of guys, but yeah, that's a great best practice, by the way.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't think I did that. Like that, I I was doing that exactly what you're talking about. You snug them all the way up and then hit them with the impact. But if you do it just a couple threads, that makes all the sense in the world. That's a great best practice.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's what I tell all the young guys uh anytime they you know, anytime I get a chance. It's just here, put them on, put them on a couple threads. One guy's like, Well, I run them all the way down because I stripped a stud once. I'm like, yeah, well, believe it or not, you also left the wheel loose once. So they got to the customer. So you're you're you're not gonna I'd I'd much rather strip a stud than leave a wheel loose. So 100% put them on threads, and you'll know by the time you leave the shop.

SPEAKER_00

If you're an automotive, diesel, or collision instructor or an educator helping students explore these careers, this is for you. Building relationships with local shops takes time, and knowing who's willing to help isn't always clear. ASC Connects, in partnership with Renchway, brings schools and industry together on one easy online platform at no cost for schools. At the heart of ASC Connects is School Assist, the online resource that lets you post exactly what your program needs. From guest speakers, shop tours, tools, advisory committee members, career fair participants, and even student job opportunities. Shops can see your requests and respond directly to you. You'll also get access to instructor-focused resources, webinars, and templates designed to save time and strengthen industry partnerships. Even if your school doesn't have a formal auto or diesel program, you can still participate to help connect interested students with real world opportunities. ASE Connects is free for schools. Get started at wrenchway.com slash solutions slash schools or use the link in the show notes. Well,

Building a Diagnostic Assistant for Techs

SPEAKER_00

I didn't mean to divert from your story because I I love your story and your time in the shop. And this is where, as the conversation goes, I just love talking to you because there's uh you can tell so much passion about the industry and so much passion about uh about trying to make it better, right? And and ways that we can work together to make it better. So as you go through your your technician career, you start to kind of evolve a little bit in some of this other stuff. And and I had mentioned uh we'll put a link to your website up, but you you're doing some amazing things. Can you talk to us a little bit about kind of how you've uh taken this platform as a technician and and used it to kind of build on other things as well?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I would say I started probably the beginning of this year, and I I've seen so many young guys come and go. It it's you know, I build relationships with these guys, and you know, over the years I still talk to a lot of them, and I just sat down and decided, you know, I need what can I build to help the industry? What can I build to give the technicians? What can I, you know, what can I do on my end? And you know, I'm not sure which one you want to go to first, the website.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah, it's up to you, like whatever makes the most logical sense, and I probably didn't segue that the best because it's almost doing discredit to your experience in a shop. Like you've you've done so much, like and really kind of taking that now to to like everything. That's where it can get to be such a loaded conversation because you're doing so much.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you want me to kind of start back a little bit in my career and kind of okay. Yeah, yeah, please. So, for instance, I started a group in vocational school, kind of on placement last year was you know, senior, took the ASAP program, and I was with that group for roughly 15 years before I got into management, but I don't think it was maybe five years after I got out of my ASAP program. I was training, we call, you know, my manager called it farming our own, right? We grew our own technicians. And back then the industry almost had like an unspoken rule that you don't go after each other's technicians, right? You kind of farm your own. And that kind of that kind of broke away maybe five, six years. You know, now now everybody's just trying to get what they can.

SPEAKER_00

Went wild.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And um, you know, so I at one point I'm training five guys at a time, you know, and just by the time I got to the 15-year mark, you know, you look around in the shop, you know, this is a 45-bay shop, and a lot of the guys there, you know, I trained and you know, had great relationships with. And unfortunately, you know, we had managers that would cycle through probably every other year, you know, every year. And that does get old, you know, it as a you want some structure, you want somebody who's been there for a while. And so about the 15-year mark, I I was actually about to take a job at Tesla, put my two weeks in, and my fixed ops director's like, look, we we can't let you leave. I'm just like, Well, I you guys don't have a manager I'd work for right now. And um, what if we make you the manager? I'm like, Well, I guess you know, I'll give it a shot. I don't, you know, didn't get any training on it or nothing, but they just kind of threw you in it, and you know, that shop, it was you know, had it doing very well. Um, I had technicians coming from competitive dealers, you know, joining us, a ton of other cars, you know, from other dealership license plates, stuff like that. And then I had another dealer reach out to me, had well, they had a recruiter reach out, and they just wouldn't leave me alone. They're like, look, can you go sit down and have dinner with these guys? So sat down, had dinner with them, and eventually they got me to make a decision to move, which at the time me and my fixed ops director, you know, it it's hard leaving a place after 19 years, you know. But let's say it we, you know, everybody, don't be wrong, I like NADA, but a lot of times when you're in management, you know, they'll for instance, my fixed ops director is like, we need 30 hours out of each bay. I don't care if we got to put one technician in every bay. I'm like, well, that's we're doing pretty good. Like we we're not we're not going to start cutting guys down into bays and putting, and that's just you know, the mentality that started coming forth and ended up going to another group for a couple years. Um ran that store and had an owner of another store, and one of my former managers, you know, had that turned that store around. They wanted me to come work for them, and that ended up being a decision where a year into it, I'm just like, I'll I'll go back to be a technician. Like it's because I've always kept up with my training, kept up with the sh, you know, guys in the shop. Um and you know, I ended up I don't want to say anything negative about you know any of it, but I I made the decision. I'm like, here I'm you know, beat my head against a wall. Just give me two bays in the back, I'll go back to be a technician. So went back to be a technician. They changed health insurances, which had me shopping health insurance, and and that's what led me to you know, the group I'm at now. And over the last year, you know, we've seen high pretty high turnover and stuff like that. I've you know, I just sat back and looked at the industry and tried to find, you know, as technicians, that's what we do. We solve problems like literally all day long. And I just started pinpointing some of the problems I found in the industry and figured trying to figure out ways to solve them. And so that's when I, you know, wrote the book, Why Technicians Are Leaving and How to Keep Them, because when a technician leaves a dealership, they're not usually telling management, you know, all the problems. They're they want to get out with the minimum conflict as possible, move on to their next job, and just enjoy life. And managers aren't really hearing the issues that the technicians, you know, go through. Are truly having, yeah. Yeah, and the struggle with flat rate and just just the grind of being a technician. So I decided to write that book. And as I'm writing it, I'm like, well, maybe the maybe the book just might not be enough. I'll start a consulting group, which you know wasn't a big deal. You know what I mean? To me, I'm just like, well, just in case somebody wants, you know, more information. Yeah. And um then I started looking at the technician, you know, what what do technicians need? And so AI, I'm not really a big fan of, you know, there's a ton of negative things that AI can bring, you know, and but there's also a lot of good it can bring. And it can amplify, it's just like another tool, right? It can amplify anything anything you really want to do. I mean, besides like breaking a bolt loose, you know, that's when you get the big breaker bar, you know, you get you get a different tool for that. But as far as a technician, I just sat back and looked at what I could build to actually train and really assist a lot of these young guys that struggle with reading comprehension or pull up a schematic and get you know terrified. Like, what what are all these lines? You know, as a this a foreign language, and um, so that's when I built the app. And it's I don't have you had a chance to check it out.

SPEAKER_00

I I don't not a ton, yeah. I it but as we were talking, because we we did the intro not too long before the actual recording, and there's so much of what you've done where I'm like, I I need to dive head deep into this stuff because it is really good.

SPEAKER_01

So the app I love as far as a diagnostic assistant, like it's I've trained it in the shop personally. Um, I've had other guys using it across other dealerships that love it. Um, and it it will break if somebody's struggling with reading comprehension, and I I use it myself. Let's say it's three o'clock on a Thursday. I see a big long description and operation, and I'm just like, I don't want to read that. And I I'll take a picture of it and say, break this down and simplify it for me, so I can come up with a you know process of diagnosis. So cool. Yeah, and it you can upload schematics, you can just type in your code, and it I've spent a ton of time trying, you know, I'm a little OCD, so I yeah, and and it's uh I I've it's it's impressed me, and it's impressed the people using it. We see people come guys are finding the website, downloading the app, and you see just repeat use, you know, they're going back to it, running more diags. Um, I got guys that work at other dealerships that love it. And at first, I got you know, I got time and money invested in it, and I'm like, uh, $9.99 a month ain't a bad price. Well, the first couple people that kind of went to it were guys I know, and I it was hard for me to sleep a night just charging, you know what I mean? I'm just like I've helped these guys for free my whole life, yeah, for free my whole life. So I've I made it free for any technician. Um, you know, they they download that. Yeah, and that's you know, the site is there to kind of help people find it, you know. So it's and there's a lot of information on the site. Um, you know, it's it's been a lot of early mornings, a lot of late nights building it. Um, but it's probably when I sit when I step back and look at all the issues with the shop, so that's for the young guys, you know, the guys that kind of struggle with diagnosing stuff, need just need some assistant, you know, that don't have that mentor there. And realistically, AI wasn't to the point two years ago or a year ago where you could have even made it. You know, what it's really just got to the point where that's even possible. Um, and it's it's really amazing what it can do and how more efficient it can make you. Um and then you know, the other problem I step back and look at is the senior techs, you know, the the specialist guys. What what kind of um what do they need? And this might I I'd be interested in just hearing what you think about this, but you know, dental dentists have assistants, you know, a lot a lot of industries have assistants, you know, specialties. And you got specialists in the automotive industry, right? Your trans guy, your diesel guy, your electrical guy, your radio guy. I think it would almost be beneficial to start restructuring some shops and just thinking about hiring like a shop assistant for say four or five specialty guys, right? Where they're because there's so much wasted time anymore, everything's gotten more complicated, right? Most parts departments want you to come pick out a part. Most, you know, that's as a flat rate guy, you're sitting there thinking, this is taking too long, dude. I got you know, I got hours to turn. I want to make sure you get the right part, but you know, cars that need driven, programs that need babysitter, multi-points and video inspections, like all this stuff is at the point where I think it would be beneficial for the ATEX. You know, your your main guys if they left the shop, it it would hurt the shop. I mean, yeah. And what would it cost to cost a shop to get an assistant? What maybe forty-fifty thousand dollars a year? Um, yeah. And and that's a full-time, you know, that's not your dispatcher, that's not a lot tech, that's not an apprentice, apprentice you want to, you know, move into flat rate pretty quickly. This is somebody who is going to learn a lot, you know, and could potentially be a technician down the road, but I think it would I think it would drastically help production. Um, you know, and these guys' hours are wrong it up.

SPEAKER_00

But well, and I look at it as another opportunity to bring more people into the business, too, right? Because maybe you've got I I feel like over the years I've seen people that are kind of the career changers, and it sounds like in the future there's going to be a lot more of that, where somebody could have five or six different types of careers over the course of their life, of their working life. And you you look at maybe maybe instead of that person right out of high school or right out of tech school, that you've got that 30-year-old that wants to change careers and is interested in this industry. And you know, there I don't know that there's better opportunities than to work alongside those specialists, right? To be able to kind of see what they're doing and and help them out, and then at the same time earn the trust of those specialists, right? Those people like you that have been around a long time, and I think we've all kind of paid attention to some of those younger people that have that desire and are actually wanting to listen and learn from from the others. And and I think it takes a unique person to go into that into that position, but man, if you get the right one, you you could really, really put some horsepower between behind your specialists. I agree.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, 100%. Yeah, and it'll pay for itself probably twice, you know. And and if it keeps a good guy from leaving, you know, it's even more.

SPEAKER_00

That's the other p piece, right? Like you look at this, it is always a challenge in our industry, and I especially in a flat rate environment. I've heard from a lot of folks that are you know a-level technicians, that master diagnostician that doesn't feel the flat rate system benefits them because oftentimes they get the hardest jobs, the hardest to diagnose jobs, the ones that take the most time, the ones that are hardest to get paid on, whether it's through warranty or customer pay. And I kind of just always look at like how how you treat a really experienced tech is really telling to a young person coming into our industry because if you treat them like garbage and you know you use them up until they're they're physically not able to work anymore, and then kind of throw them out the door, that sends a signal to all of the younger generation of like, oh, that I see how much they appreciate that you know, Jim for working here for 30 years or 40 years, and and you know, hey, thanks for your service. Good luck. Yeah, you know, probably won't see you again. No, like it it's it's one of those things where you're like, man, as you're looking at that, how do you make that specialist life easier? Well, having an assistant would probably help a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it it definitely would. I you hit a couple points, and one being the how you treat you know your technicians, and that's kind of what had me actually leave a dealership over 19 years is there was a guy there that's been there for 40 years, and it was actually our shop foreman, and I wanted to send him to Niagara Falls. And I'm just like, here, I'll you know, why not? You know, we price it out, looked at everything, cost a couple thousand dollars to send him and his wife to Niagara Falls. And basically, they said, Well, if we did that for him, we'd have to do it for everybody who's gonna be here for 40 years. I'm like, what's wrong with that?

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, if they're there for 40 years, that's a pretty low cost, right? And instead, you know, they gave him a hundred dollar gift card to like a steakhouse or something. And I I don't know. There was a lot of stuff going on that yeah, made me. I'm just like, uh maybe you know, me leaving is is for the best, but well, and you look at that compared, especially in a dealership environment, with how they'll treat their best salesperson that's been there for 40 years, right?

SPEAKER_00

Like you, I think everybody can see, you know, regardless of what you say and how much you love your service department, actions mean more than words, and a lot of times those actions aren't overly complimentary of the service department.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, 100%. Yeah, they and you know, we talk about the recruiting issue, but if the technicians in the industry are telling, you know, what it you know, I've been quoting your stats. I didn't even know they came from you guys. Like I said, I haven't even I haven't really stepped back and looked at what's going on out there in so long until like I just started doing all this. But what is it like 70% of technicians are unhappy and discouraging people to come into the industry?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, they don't think there's hope. Yeah, like they they don't think that we're moving in the right direction, which is very concerning.

SPEAKER_01

So if that don't change, it recruiting, you know, yeah, it's always gonna be an issue. So yeah, it they gotta start, you know. You keep doing the same thing over and over and over. What do they call that? Insanity, right? Definition of insanity. Yeah, so it I don't know. I'm trying to do everything I can on my end.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know how much of an impact it'll make, but I think it is hugely impactful, and here's why you've lived that life, you've seen the good, the bad, the ugly, you've uh really been ingrained in it. And I I think we need more like you, to be honest. Like, I I think we need more people that are willing to speak up and sit at the table for the good of the industry, and you know, I I that that was our intention with wrenchway from the start, right? Was like, how do we how do we get more visibility to some of this stuff? And some of it is just frankly, just blind spots from shop leadership, right? Where they maybe truly don't understand it, and and so the more we can get you talking and shine a spotlight on that, I think the better, because that helps out point out those blind spots and maybe those conversations that happen in a shop that shop leadership's not privy to, or or you know, a lot of times that's a secret conversation that's you know, maybe going to hurt the feelings of a shop leader. And I I think somehow if we can get those out in the open, of course, in a respectful way, absolutely, you know, and and there is times where I feel like I am a translator from technicians to leadership where it's you know, I do you want to say it that way? Maybe we can reframe that a little bit. So it's a it's a little bit a little bit softer, but still land that point home. I think that's the entire point, is you know, I think at times technicians have really, really good feedback. It's just in the way that they communicate that feedback that where where it goes wrong, right? So, how do we how do we take your voice? And you've done a phenomenal job with that, with the book and the app and the website and just everything that you're doing to be able to kind of do that same thing, right? Where how do we how do we get that out so that we can really better educate the

Expanding APEX Tech Nation

SPEAKER_00

industry?

SPEAKER_01

So one thing I I forgot to even bring up, and I'm not trying to give you any type of pitch on it, but as I made that app, I'm thinking I think it'd be a great, you know, the AI diagnostic assistant would be great for young guys in the industry, but I'm thinking dealer groups they you know, you don't want to use my brand. So I made a made a demo that a couple different dealer groups are trying out now where it's got basically I call it white label because they can use their own domain name, use their own logos, and I build the back end, and it's actually got the diagnostic ASE test prep. Um, but it's got a feedback function. And if you play around with it, you'll you'll think because you can put in there this shop sucks, and big orange letters will come up and say, No, we need more information. And like AI will write this, will write your problems out professionally and send it to admin, and admin will get an email and notification.

SPEAKER_00

I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I I'm kind of trying to roll stuff like that out, but no, I agree. Technicians, you know, they that's why most of them want to work on cars, they don't like communicating with people. Like it's I had a transmission tech that um when I was in management wanted to wanted to be a service advisor, he wanted to try it out. So I'd I'm like, let's give it a shot, man. I'd you know, more people up front that you know know what's going on, that the better. You know, technically customers like hearing, you know, technical breakdowns and stuff like that. And he was two weeks in, he's like, man, I'd rather work on a car than deal with people. I'm like, yeah, I figured, you know, it's not not many of them do. And that's just you know, that's just who they are, you know, that's who we are. It's you know, we'd much rather be in the garage and working on cars and and fixing stuff. I of course I don't mind the management angle, but yeah, you know, that's not it's not all of them.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, it's it's not for everybody, right? And that's that's the important part. And I try to I I love when technicians can go spend some time at a service manager's desk because then you truly kind of understand and maybe even appreciate that job and how hard it is. And you know, it's not just sitting behind a computer and and watching YouTube videos all day, like there's there's some serious work happening there, and it's a lot of trying to keep people happy, and a lot of times it's a no-win situation where you're you're gonna make a decision that's gonna upset somebody, right? And so trying to deal through all of those and the personalities, and uh I've seen it a lot over my years where somebody tries that spot out and says that same exact thing. I didn't I'm just gonna go back out the shop and wrench.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, no, it's yeah, it's definitely a lot. You know, you got you got bosses that's breathing down your neck about CSI and you know, you got warranty schedules, it's you got a lot going on. You got a whole yeah, and it's really a 24-7 job. You know, that's one thing I I don't miss about it is you know, when I was in management, I'm you're just thinking about it all day long.

SPEAKER_00

Where you know there's not an off switch when you go home either, right?

SPEAKER_01

Like you're really not.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, no, no, it's it's tough. And I think the more industry, like if if you're working side by side, say the parts department, right? A lot of times there's that that friction between service and parts. And yeah, maybe they don't understand each other's sides as well as they should. And I'm just a big proponent. If you're frustrated with a maybe a neighboring department within uh within the shop or the dealership, go spend some time over there. You know, maybe as weird as it sounds, maybe it's a Saturday morning and they're open and and you're not scheduled to work, go spend a couple hours with them. It might change your perspective and in kind of your life in general. And if you can build those relationships, they can make your life much easier or much harder, depending on on how that relationship is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. No, that's that's what I was said before. Like parts usually needs help picking out parts. But if like when you walk in, there's a technician, you see why. You know, that's stuff's not broken down easy for them. You know, they don't they don't have the experience, the hands-on on cars, and it, you know, they need help. And if you want the right part, you should probably work together and you know build a good relationship to get that handled. But yeah, it's I've never really understood, but I've seen it, but you know, you got sales, you got service and parts. If you're not working together as a team, like it it's makes life harder. Yeah, I just uh to me, I find it insane. Everybody's got to work together, everybody is dealing with the same customers. Um, you know, and yeah, you definitely gotta have a good relationship and an understanding.

SPEAKER_00

And yeah, same North Star. You're you're trying to make make the customer happy, you're trying to to make your family happy by providing for them. You're yeah, you just the general stresses of of being a human, right? Like there's so much outside influence on your happiness. And I I think the more you can control what you can control, and if it's being better in your relationships, having a better understanding of other people, uh just it it all goes well. And I will say we're we're close to to closing this thing up, which is shocking. This hour flew by, and I don't feel like we we got uh we just scratched the surface. I think uh there's so much more to talk about. I do have three kind of fun questions for you to end the podcast on. Uh, if if you're ready.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_00

First one is what was your first car?

SPEAKER_01

Man, my first car. Well, they're gonna give you two. Well, the first car I bought I could drive, or the first car I bought for somebody else to your choice. Okay, so first car I bought was a Buick Riviera. Like that was and that was twelve hundred bucks. That's when I actually had my driver's license.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, like I said, I came from Smooth car, like good. That's a good, good car, especially for the money, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was. Yeah, it was twelve hundred bucks, and back then, uh I think I ended up selling it to my aunt later. She moved down from Virginia for maybe even more than that. I don't know. But yeah, it's uh all the cars I had I wish I kept, but hey, it's you know that's life. Yeah, it really is. I don't know what I'll go ahead.

SPEAKER_00

Second question is are you an early morning person or a late night person?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I'm my alarm set for 4 30 every morning.

SPEAKER_00

Good for you. Good for you, 4 30. That's uh we we hear that a lot on the podcast from our guests, right? I I think a lot of the high achieving people are typically uh a lot of times some of the first up in the morning, right? They they get a lot done before everybody else is awake.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I used to have it set to five and I listened to too much Jocko, so he's got me.

SPEAKER_00

You see him posting the uh the the uh yeah, does dude's paid uh post. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I had to kick it back to 4 30.

SPEAKER_00

Good for you. Uh what is your favorite type of food?

SPEAKER_01

Uh I'm gonna have to go with Italian. I all right. My family's Italian, and I mean on Thanksgiving, we had Latino. Uh yeah, it's that's Italian.

SPEAKER_00

I will say this might be a hot take, but I would much rather have a good Italian lasagna than turkey any day of the week. So I I uh I commend your family there. There we there are years where I probably wish I would be uh at your fan family's dinner table because uh I that sounds more enticing to me than turkey.

SPEAKER_01

It's good. We always had turkey there too, but nobody really ate the turkey. It was for sure. Yeah, yeah, it was.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I I can't tell you how much I appreciate for for those of you listening. Anthony joined us on his lunch break, and he is doing some phenomenal stuff. We'll make sure we put links in the show nights in the show notes, excuse me, to everything that he's doing, uh, so you can check it out. But uh Anthony can't tell you how much I appreciate what you're doing for the industry, all of the initiative that you're taking, all of your hard work on the shop floor, uh, just uh in general. What an absolute pleasure to talk to you and and hopefully we can get you back on again sometime soon.

SPEAKER_01

I appreciate it, Jay. And I'm gonna say the same thing about you guys because honestly, I never I never realized there was actually so many people out there being, you know, being a voice for the technicians. And you know, I'm used to just coming home from work and I don't want nothing to do with the industry. You know, I'm not listening to podcasts. Yeah, I'm and you know, so I'm I'm really glad you guys are out there and doing what you're doing. It's it's refreshing to see.

SPEAKER_00

Appreciate you, my friend. Best of luck in the future, and uh we'll talk soon.

SPEAKER_01

You too. You have a good one, Jay. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00

That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode, please show your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews on Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, did you know Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by the Wrenchway team? Wrenchway is an online community dedicated to promoting and improving automotive and diesel careers. We help technicians find the best jobs to work at, and we also help auto, diesel, and CTE instructors get more support from local industry. You can learn more by visiting wrenchway.com.

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Jay Goninen

Host