Beyond the Wrench

The CARE Movement—Right People, Rare Experiences

• Jay Goninen

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Joe Hamilton, President & CEO of Vortex Optics, helped build one of the outdoor industry's most recognized and fiercely loyal brands by treating service as a competitive weapon, not an afterthought. In this episode, Joe unpacks the CARE Movement (Create A Rare Experience), why hiring people who already share your values is the foundation of delivering it, and why being genuinely human is the rarest advantage a business can have in 2026.

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SPEAKER_00

Timeless and never goes out of style. It's if you can provide good service. When somebody calls to get a real human being who's happy and empowered to help, when they send an email, how fast is that response? How how um how empowered is that employee to actually help them?

SPEAKER_01

Beyond the Wrench with Jay Ganinen from Ranchway.

SPEAKER_02

On today's show, I'm excited to be joined by Joe Hamilton, president and CEO of Vortex Optics. While many people know Vortex is one of the most respected brands in the outdoor industry, Joe has become known for something that extends far beyond optics, and that's the care movement. Care, which stands for create a rare experience, is built around a simple but powerful idea. Every interaction matters, whether it's customers, employees, or the people we encounter every day. Creating meaningful experiences builds trust, strengthens, strengthens relationships, and ultimately drives long-term success. In this episode, Joe is going to share the story behind the care movement, how it helps organizations balance performance with humanity, why businesses that win in the long run are often the ones that make people feel seen, valued, and connected. Joe Hamilton, welcome to the show. How are you?

SPEAKER_00

I'm doing great. I'm happy to be here. I'm excited to kind of get into all the things. But Jay and I go back, you know, 10, 11 years. And so it's just great to connect again with you. And yeah, I'm excited to get into all the things. Vortex, care, everything.

SPEAKER_02

Cool. So let's talk about how we met. Uh, we were in a class, I believe, in Middleton, Wisconsin, uh, that was kind of uh about I believe it was uh something about next generation leadership. And uh as we kind of sat in that class together, got to know you a little bit along with some others in the class. And uh at the time, uh I'm not that big of a hunter, and uh I I you had talked about what you did at Vortex, and I didn't know a lot about it, and so you humbly shared what Vortex did in this class, and I learned a little bit more about it. And I think one of the funny parts was as we we left one day, I'm like, wait a minute, you guys are way bigger than I thought you were. You had built this just awesome business, and there was something that clicked with with me in talking to you where you you were so focused on self-development and and really improving yourself uh first and foremost. And uh, I as you talked through the books that you read, there were a lot of the same books that I was reading at the time, and you know, I I'll never forget you talking about Dave Ramsey's entree leadership. And I had read it and really hadn't run across too many others that had. So, like it was one of those things where as you're talking about, I'm like, here's this guy that's a lot like me, and it just uh clicked with you right off the bat. So it's just been so fun to be able to reconnect with you here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. And it's always good to connect with you know, people that are that grew up in family businesses. That we it's like, you know, it's like it's it's like its own therapy session when we all get together. 100% everything that you go through for those that know what I'm talking about, you know, you're in a family business, it has so many amazing benefits and learning lessons, and then there's you know, just a lot of tough stuff that can come with a family business too. So it was just cool to have like, you know, people with that same background and and uh but what often happens as it happened with us is the apple doesn't fall too far from the tree. And whether it's that business or another business, you know, it's just in your DNA. So it was just yeah, it was great to connect with you and and and it makes sense why you would be and I'd be reading the same books and geeking out the same stuff, even though a lot of people are thinking about their barbecue or heading to the lake. You know, we're we're we're discussing, you know, the latest chapter on trade leadership.

SPEAKER_02

Uh 100%. Now, walk us through uh our audience is primarily the transportation trades. Uh and I'm guessing a lot of our our audience is very familiar with Vortex, but for those that aren't, uh can you give us a little background on Vortex Optics?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, for sure. Um, and okay, so Vortex um is we've vortex been around since 2002, but prior to Vortex Optics, um, you know, my my uh my father, my parents, they had Eagle Optics, which is an e-tailor and mail order company, primarily to the bird watching market. They had had that for a number of years, and then in addition to that, they had a single Wild Birds Limited store um that they started in 1986. They ended up selling that in 07. It's still going. Um, and so each one, each business sort of beget the other business. But our main business now obviously um is Vortex, and that's technically started in 2002. I can run Cliff Note version through it if you want.

SPEAKER_02

Um I love the story. So you go as much music as much into details you want. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

All right, cool. So um again, I'll kind of move, uh, it'll maybe start a little slow, but I'll move kind of quick. So um my father uh was in Vietnam and uh did three tours in Vietnam, got the GI Bill, got out, and as he told me one time, he to he threw a dart at a dart board of respectable careers and it landed on dentistry. So he goes and becomes a dentist. He, you know, he meets my mom, they get married, they start having kids, they would eventually have four boys. I'm the the uh there was twins, then me, then my younger brother. So he was a dentist for I think roughly 10 years, and it was do it was doing well by you know any business metric, but he hated being a dentist. I mean, he did not like it, um, did not like looking in people's mouths all day. He really didn't like the fact that nobody wanted to come see him, even though he really over-indexed on trying to make it um an enjoyable experience. But let's be honest, nobody really wants to go to the dentist. So it's a stressful career, even though it was going well. And so what he and my mom would do a lot is they would go on hikes and they'd bring us boys. And uh, and then my mom started to get into backyard bird feeding, and there was a local Wild Birds Unlimited. This is in Kendallville, Indiana. I think the store on Wild Birds Limited was in Fort Wayne. So my dad would go with her and they would get some stuff and they'd put it in the backyard. He wasn't like a birder or anything. Um, but you know, very quickly he thought to himself, you know, I wonder if I could have a store like this, and it'd be a lot less stressful, which is funny now to think that retail would be less stressful, but no, that's what he thought at the time. And so he made some inroads with the franchise, which there was only six, seven stores at the time. And they said to him, Hey, uh, yeah, we would love for you to be our next Wild Birds Unlimited store owner. Um, we have too many stores, or we have enough stores in Indiana. Why don't you head to Wisconsin? They said you can hit uh Milwaukee, Green Bay, Madison. So, as you know the geography, he hits Milwaukee first. It's too big. He hits Green Bay, it's too small. And on his way back, circling back, he hit Madison, and that was just right. So, as they like to say, in a covered wagon, they had them and three boys at the time, they'd have a fourth. Um, you know, they they came up to Wisconsin and he started this Wild Birds Unlimited store. And so he was doing what a lot of people that are new businesses doing. He's got three young boys, he's got he's got a wife, you know. So he he needs to make this go. So he's sleeping at the store, um, he's building all his own displays, but the store is doing well, but not too far into having a Wild Birds Unlimited store, he would have all these people coming in saying, Dan, I've got the feeders, I've got the seed. Sometimes we go on walks, but I need optics to see these birds better. And so back then, this is pre-internet, and so he's sending everybody to camera stores. That's where you primarily sent people to get a binocular or a spotting scope. But he soon realizes or or thinks he realizes, you know, I might be able to sell these binoculars. And these binoculars are pretty expensive. You know, I'm selling these suet cakes for a dollar a piece. Maybe I if I sell these binoculars for a couple hundred dollars, that would really help the business and you know, help his help him support his family. So he calls up the brands at the time, the sport optics brands at the time, and he tries to get a rep out so he can open up an account and they just laugh him off the phone. I mean, they're like, Wild Birds Unlimited, do you guys sell like parakeets and toucans? Like, I'm not sending my rep out there. So, my so in true entrepreneurial fashion, he actually heads to American TV, which sold binoculars at the time.

SPEAKER_02

I remember American TV, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You remember, right? So he buys like 12 binoculars, he puts, he clears out a case in a store, he puts them in there, and he marks them a dollar over what he paid. So, and everybody knows, right? That's not a long-term strategy from a profitability standpoint, but that's not what he was worried about. He's just trying to see can I, will this work? Can I actually sell them in my store? Sure enough, a couple weeks go by, he sells all of them. So now he calls those same companies back and he's armed with all those receipts and he said and he tells them everything that he did. And of course, all those brands are on the phone and they're like, Well, Dan, technically you violated every one of our dealer agreements, you know. But you know what? That was pretty impressive and and pretty gutsy. I'm gonna send my rep out. So, so that's how he got set up selling optics in his in his retail store. But what he also noticed was that there those uh brands had a lot of different price lists, okay? And if you wanted the best price and you were gonna make some significant money for the inventory that you were carrying and the time it takes to sell an optic, um, it might take an hour with a customer. He really needed to get a better price. And to get a better price, he needed to sell more than just his small store, which is what led him to creating Eagle Optics, which was a mail order company. And eventually, when the internet came around, he became an e-tailor, primarily focused still on bird watching, but he would go around the country uh, you know, to like bird festivals and all these different things and hand out a can't catalog. Um, and so very soon he became known as the independent place to get sport optics and of course magnified his reach. And then after a while, he became known as the optics guy within the franchise of Wild Birds Unlimited, which was growing. Okay, so there was a couple hundred stores. They would call him and say, Dan, you're the optics guy. I can't afford to open up an account. Can I get the binoculars from you? So he started to then um transship or or wholesale binoculars. But the problem was again, the margins were not good enough to really sell them to somebody else and have them make a margin. Everybody knows small mom and pop, you need to make a good margin there.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So that led him, you know, uh kind of cliff note it that led him to creating his own Eagle Optics line of products that he sourced, that he designed, and then he could wholesale that brand to Wild Birds Unlimited as well as sell that brand within his e-tailor mailer uh uh catalog. And so that was a really pivotal moment because he had been a retailer for so long. When he became a wholesaler and a brand, he took all those negatives that he experienced as a retailer with brands, which were a lot at the time, and he turned them on their head and made made them into positives. So, of course, like me and the brothers were all working, you know, as kids through these different businesses, Wildbirds Limited and Eagle Optics. I had gone to college and was getting out in 2002. I thought I was gonna go to law school, I got cold feet. I started to meet and shadow some lawyers, and they all hated their jobs. So I was like, I don't think I'm ready for this. So my dad was saying, hey, I'm getting ready to launch this other piece of the business, which would eventually become vortex. But the idea on this side of the new side of the business was he said, everything we're doing with wholesaling and eagle optics, it's working really well, but it's positioned around birding, it's positioned around the Wild Birds and Limiteds. I want to replicate that, but in a non-birding exclusive way. So we had exclusivity with um Wild Birds and Limiteds, and and it was either Eagle Optics or Wild Birds and Limiteds were the Eagle Optics brand. So in 2002, we actually started a bunch of brands, and one of them was Vortex. I don't know if people can see this. This is like one of my own.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we can see that. Oh, that is awesome.

SPEAKER_00

Like all these different brands, and Vortex was one of them. And so what we did is we sold those for three years, and a couple things started to kind of bubble up to the surface. Number one, we had a lot of licenses, so we had like Audubon licensing, National Audubon Society, we had collegiate license binoculars, we had a lot of these different licenses, and we didn't like having licenses. I mean, at the end of the day, they can bring what they can and can't do. I'll tell you a funny story. So for three years, though, we're selling these products, and what would happen is we were selling a lot to hunting and uh retailers. Hunting is a little bit more of a masculine brand. We had some people in in in in our um in our first uh uh at uh sheltered wings vortex who were in really into hunting, but then those stores were ordering a lot, so the economics were there too. So it's kind of like some passion, interest, and then the economics were there. And simultaneously, those licenses were for sort of frustrating to deal with, and actually, it all culminated at a trade show in Utah. We were gonna pitch a $500 binocular on an Audubon binocular, which Audubon is our biggest line. And we sat down with the head of licensing and we pitched through this binocular, we had all the data to back it up that we could sell this. And she's, I mean, she's a really nice lady. She had a big, thick New York accent. She's she just looked at us after we set our pitch and she said, Yeah, you're not gonna do that. She said, You're not gonna, we're not gonna do that. Uh, if I wanted a $500 binocular, I'd go buy a Nike one. That's what she's like.

SPEAKER_02

It's a pretty good New York accent, by the way.

SPEAKER_00

Big thick New York accent. And so we were like, we were steamed. I thought you could sear the steak on my dad's forehead, but she actually really did us a favor, and I think she was right. We walked back to the hotel and we were like, we got to get out of licensing, we got to control our own destiny, we know we can sell this. Uh, people are bringing, I mean, a lot of those retailers were like, hey, you guys don't need this license. I like working with you. Your margins are great, your service is great, your warranty is great. You guys are very expedient with it, a returned email, a phone call. So you can just have your own brand. Vortex was the name that we had. We liked it. It was kind of positioned more REI-ish, but we took all of our best products across all these different lines. We rebranded them under Vortex, and we rebranded Vortex. And so that was in 05. And then now this is where I'll speed it up. Then we we so we launched, and then all this these hunting retailers were like, hey, you're becoming my number one binocular in spotting scope line. My number one category is rifle scope. So we're like, okay, we got to get in rifle scopes. Same thing happened with range finders, same thing happened with red dots. So it just kind of like every couple of years, it ended up turning out there was a new category to get into. And so we've just, but I think you know, one of the couple things to me really stand out is we really kind of had our radar up for new opportunities. A lot of times when we got hit with something, we realized that that was a signal that we needed to lean in and see if something was there. So, for instance, a lot of people like, Dan, I need to get to binoculars. Where do I need to go? That's like a signal. And then we lean into an opportunity. I call them it, we call them experiments. So they're they're meaningful enough that if they blow up in your face, they're gonna hurt. So if my dad back then, if he those 12 binoculars stayed in the case, back then that would have hurt, okay? We weren't doing a lot of business, but it wouldn't have taken us under. It wouldn't have taken us under. We, you know, back then he had the seed, he had the feeders. So same thing when we tried, you know, rifle scopes and red dots and range finders, all those were experiments. We had a lot of data, we had a lot of uh instinct that said that those things were gonna work, but we so we were very had our radar up, constantly looking for those signals, leaning in in an experimental fashion. So it's big enough that it'll matter and we'll find out, but it's also it's it's also meaningful enough it would hurt if it didn't. Um, and then I think the other piece, which I think is really every business and every person, is we're really good at compound interests. Like we we so what I mean is is you know, a big thing for us, we make a good product. I think we make the best product. I always say from the tip of my toes to the top of my head, but other people make good product too, right? I mean, you can you can see a deer with another brand, you can shoot a deer this fall with another brand. I don't think you should. I think you should use Vortex. But what's what's timeless and never goes out of style is if you can provide good service. When somebody calls to get a real human being who's happy and empowered to help, when they send an email, how fast is that response? How how how um how empowered is that employee to actually help them? I mean, the list goes on and on. And we did that similar to your intro with every customer every day, day after day, week after week, month after month, and year after year. And so what happens is it does compound over time, it takes time, you know, and and at the beginning, it's kind of like, yeah, you're growing, and we were growing, but it was slow and steady. But around kind of 2011, 2013, that's where that compound interest started to kick in. And that's where everybody was like, Hey, what are you doing now? I'm I'm really starting to see vortex and hear about vortex. And it was funny because it was like, well, it really isn't what we're doing now, it really had to do with the accumulation of all those service touch points and all those people, anyways. I'll pause there.

SPEAKER_02

I it's just incredible. I mean, as you're going through the entire story and how especially credit to your father for having the awareness uh early on to try different things, and I love how you talk about the experimenting, and we'll talk a lot about the customer care side and and the care movement that you that you're working on. I do have to ask how the brand came to play, right? Because you see that logo everywhere now, and even I think I've seen celebrities that I I guarantee don't hunt are wearing the hat, and like it's just everywhere now. Yeah, talk talk to me about the brand a little bit too, because there's so much there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I'm glad you brought that up. This is another thing that my dad saw really good. He he really had some, I mean, still does, but great instincts and would lean into those. So so here's on the brand piece. So in the 80s and 90s and even early 2000s, binoculars and spotting scopes and optics in general were really um branded and marketed as a tool. Okay, and they are a tool, right? But very mechanical. So, for instance, brands would be selling a binocular based off of the prism coatings and the lens coatings. And so they would be like, it's a roof prism binocular, it's got silver-coated lenses, they're BAK4 instead of BK7, and you've got uh, you know, you've got um uh oh gosh, what's you know, so, anyways, you get the idea. Yeah, very, very technical. Now, here's the thing most people that are buying these binoculars for hunting for hunting and burning, you're gonna have people on the on the ends of that bell curve that are geeking out on that stuff. Most people are kind of like, I don't know what you just said, you know, like I don't know what that meant. What did you call me? You know, like uh, you know, and so but and he and my dad would often say, you know, especially Americans, he's like, Americans, uh, they want to belong to something. Absolutely, it's an identity to who they are. So they want somebody to put all that tech in there, but they don't necessarily want somebody to give them like a science quiz, you know. So they want to say, like, hey, these these optics have great edge-to-edge clarity, great under low light, you know, but that he's like, they want to have a good name. So, so previous it was very Japanese and German driven. So names of products were BN, B D, FL, EL, okay. And so he's like, That there's no identity here. He goes, when you look at American cars, they're called like a ranger, okay? They're called a Mustang, they're called a Viper, they're called, right? And he's like, he's like, so you gotta have, he's like, you gotta have a cool name, you gotta have a name that kind of gives somebody an identity. So everything was kind of put uh pushed out, including their interactions with us, as you're part of something. So we end up calling it Vortex Nation. So you're part of Vortex Nation. So it was less about just selling, it was less about this sterile. I'm selling you a tool. We were selling you a tool, and we were selling a good one. And we had all those prisms and we had all those lenses, we had all that too. But what we were really communicating was we were communicating on your level what you wanted to, and he was very adamant about that. So, from the look of the logo to the name of the product, to the name of all of our products, like Diamondback, Crossfire, Viper, Razor, he didn't want BN, BD. He didn't want the name of the company to be his last name, which a lot of people suggest. He'd be like, No, I don't want that. So it was just really kind of a mindset. Everything was a mindset, which was great because then, you know, for like me, so I'd be like, we got to call this thing Vortex Nation. I'm a big sports guy. So I was thinking Packer Nation, Badger Nation. I'm like, we got to call this thing Vortex Nation. And then it would also, but that was an encompassed when, so a lot of brands, especially consumer brands, they want to make a really good widget. They want to market their widget and they want to sell you your widget and they don't want to deal with you after that. Right? They don't want to deal with you.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

They're like, that's not what I got into this business for. I got in to make something really good and I'll sell it to you. But like I'm going to bury our phone number on the website. I'm going to bury bad right now on the website because I don't want to have to hear from you. I put all the work in the product. We were going to put a lot of work in the product, but we were like, if you walked into our headquarters, we're like, we want you here.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So everything was about tearing down the walls between between um the brand and the people that buy the brand. And from so everything marketing-wise was around it was something that they could believe in and belong to.

SPEAKER_02

I so much to unpack there, too, because I it just amazing uh the different look that you've had at this business over the course of the years. While there's a lot of credit to go to your father, I will say I remember when when we had met and gone through that class, I don't think your sales team was very big yet, right? I think it was you and maybe another person or a few other people.

SPEAKER_00

A few other people.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I just remember you talking about like when you'd make a sale, there was something where you threw it in a garbage, threw a piece of paper in the garbage can or like rang a bell or something. I I'll never forget that story.

SPEAKER_03

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

But it's been fun to watch that part of it because I think what you then took with you know your father's vision and and kind of how everything's come together there, it feels like you brought a different element to it from there, right? Where it was maybe some of that salesmanship and some of that ability to uh to connect with a lot of people.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Did you feel like kind of your personality almost complemented your dad's in in terms of like how you work together?

SPEAKER_00

I did, and he said this, and I and I I believe it's true. So my dad, like he had phenomenal instincts, he really understood principles and how to apply them. And if you were kind of within his orbit physically, so obviously I grew up in the house, so do my brothers, around the dinner table. I'm in the office with them a lot, I'd be on trips with him a lot. So I would catch a lot of really good leadership lessons, both by him leading by example as well as him just spontaneously talking about what we were doing. Okay. What my dad didn't do so much. I mean, he's kind of from the John Wayne stoic era, is it would be like, oh, that's awesome, dad. Let's have a meeting and you tell everybody that it'd be like, nah, I'm not gonna do that. You know, like, you know, like, you know, and so what I was doing, like you talked about a lot of personal development. I really caught on to this law of multiplication. And in order for our company to multiply, all of that ethos and those instincts and those principles needed to get deployed into the people. Right. So my job was to kind of be this communicator of that vision, of the mission, of the principles, of the stories. That was a lot of what my role was. Um, and still is, quite honestly. I mean, he's been retired for a number of years, but really still taking what we did and and of course building it into who you hire, right? So that was another thing that like he had it up here. He would he was saying, I'm gonna over-index on people's um kind of core DNA on who they are and what their values are, and is it aligned with ours? He wasn't really communicating that. So it was like, oh, okay, what I need to do is I need to communicate this in a way where everybody understands, hey, it's great they have experience, it's great they have the skill set, but do they actually have a heart to serve other people? Do they like that? Because if they have the skills, they have the experience, but they don't have the heart to serve other people, it's just not gonna work here.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

It may not not work right away, but eventually we're gonna come to, you know, where we're gonna like collide with one another because we don't have the same shared values. So, again, that was a lot of my role was to kind of be this megaphone and also I would say clarify it um so that uh there was clarity for the organization and it could kind of have this multiplying effect as opposed to just maybe having this, you know, one person where all of that kind of knowledge base was just at that one point. We had to kind of get it out to the whole organization, especially as we're growing and adding people.

SPEAKER_02

How did you get good at that part, right? Where you're you're looking at mission, vision, values, you're looking at how we hire people and how we expect our people to act. How did you get to the point to where you were able to take maybe some of those values that your father, your parents brought you up with and and really instill that in your team? Because it's really easy to talk about. Like we we talk about this all the time with communication, that communication is the easiest thing in the world to say, but it's the hardest thing to do. And oftentimes, especially in our industry, we run across that where employees are constantly talking about I don't feel valued, I don't feel I feel like I'm just a number. You know, all of these kind of comments that we hear over and over and over again, what made you effective in that in that kind of spot?

SPEAKER_00

I think there was a couple things. I do think I have some natural skill set for that.

SPEAKER_03

I agree.

SPEAKER_00

I think I probably got that. I I mean, I got a lot of good things from my father, but I think I got maybe that from my mother. Um, and uh, but I also think it was out of necessity, um, in that, you know, similar to you, just having this desire and this passion to to for personal development. And so you're reading constantly on things and organizations and stuff. And so I would come across a lot around that, right? This I, you know, this idea of like, oh, the importance of communication, the importance of this law of multiplication, the importance of shared values. And so it was sort of like, oh, that's an ingredient right now that I wouldn't say was completely missing, but it was like, I can, I have a skill set for that, I have an interest in that, and we have a need for it. So I think it was like a combination of that. And and and then, of course, too, like with family businesses. Um you know this, it it's they're very interesting and fascinating in that, okay, you have to be good at something if you're part of the family and in the business, or you should be.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But you kind of have to have your own lane relative to your other family members. And that doesn't mean that I mean I love my family members, and uh, and and they they have done so much for Vortex. And I've been blessed in the sense that they're they're all brilliant. Um, nobody is like the red-headed stepchild, right? That that it causes all these problems, their spouse doesn't come in and cause problems. I don't have any of that. But that said, you you really have to carve out your own lane and identity. And if you're in the same lane, it can be problematic. And so that was another, again, I think a piece there was like, okay, you know, for so many years, my dad was leading the company, right? And so it's like, Joe, you're not, you know, like, and that's okay, like, but but but I needed to, I needed to have a lane to deploy all that energy and all that uh stuff of my gifting and strengths. And so it just it worked, that part worked out really, really well. And then, of course, again, as always is the case, you know, and I'm not perfect, but he he was a great example, and that was the thing also, regardless of what I'm saying that's coming out of my mouth, I also had to be a good example of that. Otherwise, that doesn't mean anything. And so I think that goes for anybody, right? You you know, you're the example that you set is is is is speaking far louder than any words. Um, but again, but but words are needed, you know. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Well, and I think you hit on such a good point there. And even outside of a family business, this is something I think I learned early on in my professional career that I didn't it didn't click with me when I was younger, which is that everybody has a different skill set. Everybody's just because you're strong at something might not uh doesn't mean I'm strong at that same thing, right? And it took me so long in my early professional career to come to terms with the fact that, hey, I'm not good at this one thing, and I'm okay. Now I'm like now I'm open about all of that. But at the time, it was always a struggle for me to understand what my lane was, right? And what I was really good at. And I I think some level of uh it's some level of maturity over time where you kind of fall into that lane and you understand, hey, uh not only am I better at this, I kind of like this side better because I'm better at it, right? It just takes some time and some maturity.

SPEAKER_00

It really does. I think, yeah, when everybody's in the early stage of their career, um there's some can be some insecurity there, right?

SPEAKER_03

For sure.

SPEAKER_00

You want to be validated, you want people to say great things about you, you want to be known as the expert of this. And so the irony I find a lot of times is when you're in that, um the ability to be not only humble but vulnerable and and and say, I'm not as good at this, or maybe I'll give this up is really hard because you're you're you're wanting so much the affirmation of everything. But um ironically, um it really shows great leadership, it shows great wisdom, um, and it's and it's quite attractive, not like the romantic sense, but to your team to see a leader um to do that. I I but I would also say, um, and I think you hit on it, it's a strength plus something that brings energy to you, right? And so I would I would say there's sometimes you might have a strength, it brings energy to you, and you're just really early. And so you don't necessarily have to give that up, but you can be honest about that. Say, hey, I think I've got some aptitude for this. Um, it brings me a lot of energy, but I'm 22 right now, and I know I'm not gonna be world-class at it. So, so so you know, I'm I I like to not completely give that up. I like to stretch those skills and grow. Um, but at the same time, yeah, I'm not I'm not a turnkey thing right now, you know. And so, but I think you hit on it, you'll get good if you've got an aptitude, but it brings energy to you. Uh, and if you don't have that second component, uh you can be good at it, but I doubt you're gonna end up being great because you'll get burnt out.

SPEAKER_02

Every shop, dealership, and business in our industry depends on great technicians. Between the technician shortage, disconnected school relationships, and lack of trustworthy workforce data, it makes it difficult for shops to plan, hire, and grow. That's where ASC Connects comes in. Created in partnership with Renchway, ASC Connects is a membership designed specifically for shops like yours to help you build a stronger technician pipeline by connecting with schools, empowering you with tools and data to improve your recruiting, retention, and performance. With ASC Connects, you can connect with local schools through school assist, start building relationships, and support the programs that educate our future technicians. You can also access verified data on technician pay, benefits, and labor rates through the industry data exchange so you know how your shop compares locally and nationally. Lastly, you can get proven strategies for leadership, employee development, and shop management through members-only guides, templates, and events. Join ASC Connects to strengthen your workforce and build a stronger, smarter shop. Learn more at wrenchway.com slash solutions slash shops, or follow the link in the show notes. Speaking of things that people are great at, you are great at, and when I say great, like a elite level of truly caring about people. And I think in uh one of our conversations prior to this recording, you had mentioned something about the fear of AI and kind of how you know the perception is AI is taking so much, and the timing was funny because this morning before we hit record on this, I'd read an article on how there's starting to be a balance now because AI is getting really expensive, and access to AI is getting very expensive. So now there's actually a conversation that's almost tilting back toward okay, maybe it is less expensive to have people. But in in our conversation, it wasn't even about the expense side, it was truly about how our world has kind of turned into this automated kind of machine, and the way that you look at the world is so different than a lot of business leaders. And this is something that has really stuck out to me as I followed your content throughout the years, is that you've stuck to some some core fundamental things of how you treat people in a way that I think is different than most, right? And not just in your world, but in most worlds on the on the business side. So I I want to talk about this care movement because it is something that really hit home with me. And I've I've been a huge fan of following everything that you're putting out because to me, it just it is so powerful and it's so refreshing and different than what you're hearing in a lot of media. Uh so talk to me about this a little bit. What what drove it? What what is it, and and how do you see this helping everybody?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so care is an acronym, like you mentioned earlier in the intro, create a rare experience. And it was something that an acronym that I think I'd heard in like the mid to late 2000s. I don't even know where I heard it from, but I loved it. And I would the the you know, kind of cube and pot I was sitting in. I mean, Seamus is still with us, he's been with us for 28 years, going on, you know, plus, and and so we would talk a lot about, we'd hear, you know, hear it from my dad, we'd know, we knew kind of like the ethos of what who made made us us. And this CARE acronym creator experience was just like we'd say it and everybody knew what we're talking about. It was like when you know somebody so well, you can speak shorthand, and so you have your own language. And so um, when we ended up coming to formalize our vision, mission, and core values, the vision for us is the better world that we want to create, which is you know, be the catalyst that improves the world through service. So we want to be a catalyst through service. Service is a superpower. So we want a world where businesses are making service their superpower. They're making great tools just like we are, but they're really leaning into service as a superpower, serving other people. Service is not subservient, it's a superpower. The mission is how we do that. Well, we do that by creating a rare experience, and a rare experience is this unique, memorable, personalized experience. So good. Somebody feels seen, valued, important, like they matter because they do matter. So when we came to our mission, it was actually the team, the leadership team was like, it's care. That's what it is. It's creating an experience, which was really cool because I wanted it to be that, but I didn't say that. But so they kind of came back. But here's what was going, what was been happening in like you know, 2018, 2020, you know, going on is I get a lot of people saying, like, hey, Joe, like, what's the secret sauce between behind Vortex? Okay, can you be on a podcast or can you come speak or whatever? And I love doing those. It's hard sometimes to carve out the time, but I love doing those. But, anyways, in the course of like getting asked, you know, about the vortex story, I kept thinking, oh thank if to be the catalyst that improves the world through service is our vision, and creator experience is our mission. Well, really, what we need to do is we need to actually share these principles, which we don't own. We put our name on them, we we come up with our unique name, we share our stories, but principles are woven into the fabric. Compound interest, I didn't come up with that. God did. Okay. Our goal is human beings and businesses to uncover principles and align ourselves to them. But it was to share that to so to be a catalyst so that other businesses do it. And other businesses do it first and foremost to serve other people. But as a byproduct, it will help their business and their bottom line. So we're not anti-bottom line. I'm not even anti-AI or efficiency, but it is not the main thing. The main thing is serving other people, they're the center, and efficiency and automation and all that comes after, which allows, if we can keep our mindset on that, that allows us to deploy those things in an appropriate way. So I'll just give you some examples of like these are just very simplistic examples, but they might be best used because it will help people extrapolate in their situation. So let's say it's Christmas and you're getting ready to send out business Christmas cards to people.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So you've got a lot to send, you've got a lot of customers, you got a lot of uh vendors. Let's say you've got 300 Christmas cards to send, and you're like, that's gonna take a lot of time. Um, I know I'll write a message and then I'll get it printed on a Christmas card along with my name. And then we'll just get them in. And and and actually, I can probably get the place we get them printed to. They can stamp them and ship them there. Dunzo. Now I can get back to the real work, right? Well, okay, and excuse me a little bit, and and I it might have offended some people, but just don't send any Christmas cards.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Just save the money, save the postage. I I'm gonna give you a secret. Nobody cares when it's a printed Christmas card.

SPEAKER_02

Totally agree.

SPEAKER_00

Totally agree. It's it's vanilla, it's uh it it's not a rare experience.

SPEAKER_02

Nothing's hard at all.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, right. Now, here's the thing you might be right, you may not be able to do 300. So maybe the Christmas cards isn't your care create a rare experience. But I'll say this if you want to send Christmas cards, send as many as you can actually write a real note, a handwritten note. And oh, by the way, let me give you another tip because every time I say this, some people say, but my handwriting's not very good. And I'm gonna tell you a little secret, and that's this nobody cares. They don't, nobody cares about your handwriting. What they care about is that you took the time to put pen to paper, so you'd be better served sending 25 Christmas cards to people that you can authentically write something unique in that card. Or maybe you want to send all 300, but you're just gonna have to carve some time on the on the weekend and the evening. But you're gonna do it why? Because serving other people, making them seen, valued, and important, and that they matter, because they do matter, that's a core principle for you. So you can do this in a lot of different situations, and then you can also evaluate efficiencies over is it really an efficiency? Because really effectiveness trumps efficiency every single time. 100% the worst thing you can do is be efficient at something that doesn't matter. And so often you can uh you can efficient your way out of creating a rare experience. So you have to realize what is actually a rare experience. And what I would say is you have to find moments. Now, sometimes the moment comes where somebody just calls you, they walk through your front door, they email you, you didn't see it coming. You have to have your radar up. But you can be proactive and say, hey, at these different touch points, we're really gonna lean into making sure this person feels seen. We're really gonna make sure that we lean in, make sure this person um feels like they matter because they actually do. We maybe can't do it at every moment. And so that's where where when you do that, okay, and here's here's what I would say. Andy Stanley uh has this phrase that he says, do for one what you wish you could do for everyone. So here's the other thing. A lot of times people will say, if I do that one thing for that person, I have to do it for everybody. And the reality is you don't. You don't. That's what we call the boogeyman. And the boogeyman doesn't actually exist. Okay. And And so um, so and I'll give you if you have time, I'll give you a story about the please.

SPEAKER_02

I love these, these are phenomenal. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

So so years ago, you know, when my dad at the Wild Birds Limited store, early in the Wild Birds Limited days, customer comes in, businessman. This is how long ago it was in the 80s. So he's coming in in a full suit because everybody's wearing full suits back then. And he's got this bird feeder. We'll just pretend this is a bird feeder. He's got this bird feeder in his hand. This thing is mangled, right? It's mangled. He comes in. My dad's in the back, his employees are out front, and he's like, Hey, this mangled bird feeder, it's a piece of junk. I want my money back, or I want a new feeder. And the people behind the counter, they're like, We don't even sell that feeder. We've never sold that feeder. So they're going back and forth and they're kind of haggling with this guy. And he's like, Well, my wife bought it. There's no other Wild Birds Limited store in Madison. Where else do you think she got it from? Right. So finally, this guy gets so worked up, they head in the back because he's like, I need to talk to the owner, the manager. They go back and they see my dad and they ask for him to come out. And this guy gives my dad the third degree, you know, on the on this deal, and he says, I'm so sorry that happened. Goes over, grabs a brand new feeder, hands it to him. He's like, I'm really sorry that happened. Haven't you know, please have a nice day. Now, here's the thing. Let me ask you something. After all that, do you think that guy was happy when he walked out?

SPEAKER_02

I would hope.

SPEAKER_00

No, he was still upset. And the reason he's upset is because he had to haggle for it. Now, here's what I think happened. This is what my dad thinks happened. I was not in the store when this happened. I believe him. This gentleman's wife did buy a feeder. She might have bought it from Mounds Pet Food. She might have, I don't think, I don't think the internet existed back there. She might have bought it, you know, from Minard's. I don't know. But she didn't buy it there. But then he's on his way home and she asked him, like, honey, on your way home, can you return this? He looks up, only sees one bird store. And so, yes, he's in the wrong, but his wife is a frequent shopper. Okay. Somebody's a frequent shopper. But he comes in and could he've handled it better. Yes, he could have handled it better. But the thing is, is my dad realizes well, first of all, there's customers watching this and they're kind of backing away, like, uh I think. Second of all, this guy's had to haggle so hard, he's never coming back. He's telling his wife I had to haggle with these people, she's never coming back. What he realizes is a couple things. One, he realizes he's got to communicate to his employees about his wishes. But two, he realizes if I gave that bird feeder to him right away, he would have been happy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And the story he gave his wife would have been, you'll never believe those guys. I walked in within three minutes, I got a new bird feeder, and and and you know, they're the best. And so all of a sudden, repeat business gets better. The customers in the store that are watching us, like, what a great place. They might even up their what they're gonna purchase that day. But the other thing is, is what the employees were worried about, and what he had to teach them is they were worried about that there was gonna be a line all across Madison of people with mangled bird feeder. Right? And if we did that for him, we're gonna have to do it for everyone, and pretty soon we'll be out of business. We got we got 50,000 bird feeders that we got to replace, right? Well, you're laughing with good reason because that's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02

But in the in the moment, you're you think that way, right?

SPEAKER_00

In the moment it's that way. So if you can decide ahead of time, and by the way, I like is there a level a customer can go to where they they deserve to be fired as a customer? Yes, there is, okay. So by all means, there is. If they're treating your employees bad, I mean, we've fired some customers, not many, but we have. But the point is, what's really getting in the way more often than not is this boogeyman mentality. And that's where people head straight to efficiency. And that ruins creating a rare experience. It ruins it. You'll never lean into something that's a one-off thing because you're so worried about getting extrapolating it out and scaling it out. And so what happens is nobody really gets a rare experience. And if nobody gets a rare experience, guess what? Your business is kind of vanilla. Because I hate to say it, it's very, very rare that you can come up with a tool, a widget, a product that is truly unique and one of a kind. I know we all think we are, I know it, but but I can go in any industry and there's gonna be somebody else who can do it. And if they can't, they're gonna get within spitting distance of you pretty quick. So, what's the difference? Is how easy is it to do business with you? Do I feel seen when I call in? When I call you and my roof just got mangled because of the hail storm, what's that like? What's that experience like for me? Do I call them? Do I get a real person? If I leave a message, how quickly do I get a return phone call? Is somebody just just the facts, ma'am, just the facts? You know, I just need your information, you know, or is somebody empathetic on the phone when somebody's telling you about their situation? I mean, we could go on and on and on. Yeah. So when the White Hot Center is serving other people, what happens is you feel better, they feel better, you actually do make the world better, one person at a time, one interaction at a time. And as a byproduct, you're gonna get repeat business, you're going to get referrals, and I'll tell you, in 2026, you're gonna get them exponentially. And the reason why, because everybody is so wound around the axle of AI, automation, and efficiency. So we're in in 1950, what I'm talking about may have been pretty common. Okay. The pharmacist knows everybody in your family and everybody in the town, and this, and they're asking you, you know, right, right in 2026, it's not the case.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So, interestingly enough, what has happened is you can actually stand out by doing these things that take time and intentionality. They don't usually take a lot of money, but they actually make you stand out. I'm telling you right now, I'm not against AI. There's situations where we use AI, and I think we'll continue to use AI, just like when the internet came around. But if we use AI to instead handle phone conversations when customers call in, they're gonna feel that. Oh, yeah, they're gonna feel that. And over time, that's gonna erode a lot of the goodwill, and it's gonna erode them feeling like they're part of something. And so, so, and here's the other thing. I've got a bunch of people that are on phones and emails. Those people matter. But if what all that matters is efficiency and automation, then I'm gonna get sold on some guy that says, you know what, you've got 45 people on phones and emails. I can get that down to 15. What are you paying those? Uh, you know, what are you paying those 27 people? What about the insurance for those 27 people? What about all the benefits? You know, boy, you'd be saving a lot, you know. And what about all the uh all the residual costs, you know, of various things that you need to have for those 27 people? But you see, for me, those 27 people matter. I want them here. So I might figure out ways to deploy AI, but not at the expense of those 27 people. And by the way, not at the expense of the 27 people that hit thousands and tens of thousands of people via the phone and via the emails. So that's kind of this idea, this care movement is taking a mission of care, turning it into a movement to try to achieve our vision. So we're all about people having a great bottom line as a business, getting more sales, getting this passionate, obsessed customer base. We are, but that comes as a byproduct of compounding those care moments day in and day out, and trusting that compound interest is eventually going to kick in. And guess what? It is probably the most rare thing in 2026. What is not rare in 2026 is AI. It's everywhere. And there are people most likely who have much deeper pockets than you that are in that arena. So can you really beat Open AI? Can you really beat Claude? No, but I tell you where you can beat them. You can beat them when you get a phone call, when you see a person, when you go to a person's house, if you're doing a service call, etc. etc. You can make those moments matter and stand out, but you do have to truly care about other people to do it. Otherwise, it won't work.

SPEAKER_02

Oh there's just so much good advice. And it it's uh what I appreciate about you the most is I don't think in all of the growth of Vortex and all of your personal growth, I I feel like you're the same person that you were uh you know a dozen years ago or so, right? Like you have more gray hair, but same, same. But I I I'll I'll never forget you standing up in front of the group that uh our little group that we had and talking about your warranty story. Of course, uh your warranty story is is infamous, and it's one that it just stuck with me from the the early stages of like listening to you talk about, you know, do we almost like the bird feeder thing with your dad, right? Where you're you're uh the same thing where are you gonna argue with your customers over warranty or are you just going to take care of them? And I it it was one of those things that back then stuck with me all of these years now of just almost logically looking at it and saying, okay, why why why do we we don't want everybody to be miserable? Like we want people to enjoy work and being able to take care of people. And I almost feel at some level where where one of your true gifts lie is that you've given your team permission to be able to do some of this stuff, right? Whereas when you go to a lot of companies and you see, you know, it's very structured and and people are afraid to make a breath because they're they're going to get in trouble, uh, you've gone a different direction than most. And I think that's the beauty in everything that you've built, is that it is in a really cool way. I think there's a reason why, you know, I know a lot of people that work for Vortex and they're all very passionate about the brand. You talk about the people that you have inside those walls. Uh it's just uh so much credit to you and your family for what you've built and being able to stick to principles like this because it is so different than so many others out there. So I just I can't give you enough credit for everything that you've built. It's been fun to follow over the years, and and it's uh it's pretty special, man.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thanks. I appreciate it. I had some good teachers uh and and I get some good examples, and obviously we do, we have great people. One of the things that we try to do, which again, you just to offer maybe another tip, is I would highly recommend people get people who already share their values, who already have shared beliefs, and then and then you can get you can give them the North Star, but yeah, you can empower them and let them, and I'm glad you pointed that out, is to let them be empowered and to be creative and to lean into creating these rare experiences, but kind of in their way. And it and it is the best ideas, they come from our people. Um, they don't come from me. It's our people who, you know, kind of see see these opportunities with these customers and they lean into them and they elevate these moments. And again, it makes your life uh makes when you go home, you feel happier about the work that you did. You feel good about the work that you did. And then um, of course, again, as a byproduct, it's wonderful that it leads to repeat business, um, you know, uh loyal customers in word of mouth and and growth over time, which allows you then with that growth and that kind of surplus and that abundance that you create, you get to funnel that right back into your people, right back into all the products and things that you do to serve other people. So it's kind of like a big circle. Um, but that, you know, it does it does work. Um, you know, we've we try to be humble about our success, but at the same time, we want people to know that uh we are an example. So it does work. It's not just lip service, it's not just feel good stuff, it does actually work as it pertains to running a successful business.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, well, I've I've got the couldn't agree more. You guys are a shining example of what to do. Uh to end the show, we have three just quick hitting questions for you, uh, kind of fun. But uh, what was your first car?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, what was my first car? Oh gosh. Uh really hit you out. So I think it was a trailer camry 19 19 uh 92 Camry that all three of the older brothers shared. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_02

So it got a little beating before it got to you. Uh uh. Oh, totally.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, totally. Always. Always.

SPEAKER_02

Uh are you a morning person or a night owl?

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I'm a morning person.

SPEAKER_02

I I could have answered that before I even asked it.

SPEAKER_00

If I'm up by if I'm up at 9 p.m., uh, you know, it's it's a miracle. You can ask my wife.

SPEAKER_02

Uh last question. Favorite food group, or let me rephrase that. Favorite type of food.

SPEAKER_00

Favorite type of food. Oh my gosh. Uh well, it I mean mistake. I'm a big steak guy. I could eat steak morning, noon, and night. And uh, so I love a good steak.

SPEAKER_02

Oh man. Well, I I can't thank you enough for taking the time. You're you're a very busy person, and I really appreciate you uh uh carving out a little bit of time in your schedule to join us for this. And I just uh I look forward to seeing the future of Vortex. Everything that you've done, I've been just a huge fan of. I know a lot of the people listening will uh also be fans of Vortex if they hadn't been already. I'm guessing most of them have been. So uh just really appreciate everything. Best of luck in the future and uh and hope to talk to you sometime soon.

SPEAKER_00

Well, thanks for having me. This was a fun conversation.

SPEAKER_02

That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode, please show your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews on Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, did you know Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by the Wrenchway team? Wrenchway is an online community dedicated to promoting and improving automotive and diesel careers. We help technicians find the best jobs to work at, and we also help auto, diesel, and CTE instructors get more support from local industry. You can learn more by visiting wrenchway.com.

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Jay Goninen

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