Beyond the Wrench
How can automotive and diesel shops run a better business and be more profitable? How can we make the aftermarket and dealerships more attractive to younger generations? Each week, Jay Goninen, Co-Founder & President of WrenchWay, will sit down with shop owners, technicians, instructors, and professionals in the automotive and diesel industries to have them share their stories and insights. We’ll dive deep into what’s going on in shops and dealerships and what we can do to help drive the industry forward.
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Beyond the Wrench
Honest Conversations Move the Industry Forward
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Chris Craig—Fixed Ops Curriculum Developer at RockED and content creator with 135,000 followers across platforms—has built his following by saying the things most people are afraid to post. In this episode, he breaks down why showing both sides of every industry argument is slowly shifting the culture, from the ASE certification debate to the 30/30/30 myth, what shops get wrong when hiring new grads, and the financial traps that push young techs out of the trade.
About the Episode
- Host: Jay Goninen, WrenchWay, jayg@wrenchway.com
- Guest: Chris Craig, RockED, chris.craig@rocked.us
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The conversation piece is super important. People can talk about these issues, not complain, but talk about these issues to find that solution. Um, I think it's those kinds of things that start to heal this industry bit by bit.
SPEAKER_00Beyond the wrench with Jay Ganinen from Rentway.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to Beyond the Wrench. My name is Jay Ganinen, and I'm your host. On today's show, uh, we're lucky enough to have our good friend of show, Chris Craig, back to talk about a lot of different things going on across the industry, his social media following, which continues to grow by the day. Many of you know him from his TikToks or his presence on Facebook or LinkedIn. He's all over the place. And I'm excited to talk about all of it again today. So welcome to the show, Chris.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Hey, Jay, thanks for having me back. I don't even know if this is like the third or fourth show that we've done together, but it's great to be back and uh really excited to talk about all things technician related today.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. We uh we always have a fun time talking. And I I've said this in past shows, but I have such an appreciation for your commitment to content development and and really
Social Media as Industry Therapy
SPEAKER_01the impact that you're really starting to have on generating positivity across the industry and and really just generating conversation, right? Because I think so much of what's needed in our industry starts with simple conversations and and hopefully people putting the swords down a little bit to talk about moving the industry to a better place and not just being overly negative, but tell us a little bit about the latest with your your socials and and everything that's going on there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I really appreciate you recognizing that, Jay, because you know sometimes the content I create, it's not the sexiest, right? It's not like gonna go super mega viral. It does sometimes. Um, you know, I could chase the trends and up the following much faster, but that's not my end goal with this. My end goal is I don't want to become famous or anything like that. And I always want to grow the following to get more into the fold. But at the end of the day, I want the conversations, I want people talking about the industry issues. And that's really what the heart of my page has always been about. And it's evolved several ways, but now it's all about talking about these very clear and obvious industry issues. Often my topics are inspired by the comment sections, like whatever people are talking about, or maybe I'll see someone else post about something, like, all right, let's let's dig into this a little bit. And uh I'll open the post and I'll start talking about it and uh offer everybody to put their comments down below. And sometimes you get a bunch of negative comments and a bunch of things you're like, oh my goodness, this is what these people think. That's hero, that's horrible. Um, but if you talk about it long enough, um, eventually people start to kind of come around and the people get encouraged to start talking about, well, I think it's a good thing because, and this is a solution I have because. And sometimes I don't even have to respond to a comment anymore because another follower got on there and is like, actually, X, Y, and Z is what we did to solve for that. And uh the conversation piece is super important when people can talk about these issues, not complain, but talk about these issues to find that solution. Um, I think it's those kinds of things that start to heal this industry bit by bit.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I I couldn't agree more. And you and I had talked about this pre-show,
The ASE Certification Firestorm
SPEAKER_01but uh one of those topics of conversation and a lightning rod topic of conversation has been kind of ASE certifications as a whole, right? And and I I think you had mentioned that you had put out three different posts that have done really, really well in terms of viewership and and comments. And it was interesting to me your take on kind of the progression from largely negative with the first post to starting to soften up a little bit in the next post. And then you you had more of the crowd coming out of the kind of out of the woodwork a little bit of really wanting to have productive good conversations about everything you know related to this, right? So it has been really interesting to see uh, you know, I think almost in today's day and age, somebody almost needs permission to write something positive because uh everybody's so afraid of just being just attacked if they say anything nice about anything, right? It it's uh yeah, you feel like you're gonna put something out there. So when you see that maybe brave person go out online and say that one nice thing, and it doesn't even have to be ASE regarding or regarding ASE, excuse me, but just in general, like it it's a shame that people almost feel intimidated to the point to where they they don't want to say something because they feel like they're going to get attacked.
SPEAKER_02No, that's that's 100% accurate. You know, technicians are like hornets inside of a nest. And if you go on there and put a comment down, like, I actually like video inspections because X, Y, and Z, it's like you're basically kicking that Hornet's nest and we know what happens after that. Uh, my aim with my page is I want everyone to feel like they have a B suit on to where they can kick that Hornet's nest and not have to be worried about being swarmed like that. Um, and yeah, that's that's sort of how it's gone with that. I mean, I I post about ASC once every 90 or so days. It's not like a series I do or anything like that, but I do like to bring the topic up from time to time just to get like a pulse on the industry. Where are we at with this whole thing? And I usually do that in a post, like a spirit of like myth busting ASC stuff because people will say, Oh, there's no hands-on portion of the test, so it's not a quality certification, or I also hear it's just a bunch of corporate people in suits that come up with those test questions, not actual technicians. And these are all things that we know ASC has things in place to circumvent and go around, and technicians are involved in that question uh creation process, and you have to have hands-on experience. While it's not a hands-on test, you have to have that experience documented to earn that ASC certification. So I talk about those different things on the post. The first time I posted it, it did really well. It's done really well every single time, and the reception was pretty much negative. Every comment was like not worth the paper is written on, nobody cares about that. OEM certifications are and always will be king. That's what gets me paid. Um, ASC text can't fix a sandwich. You hear all that stuff over and over again. Um, but then the next time I posted it, and the most recent time I posted it, it's getting to the point now where it's getting about 50-50, um, where a lot of the positive comments I'm seeing is like, I actually like having a third-party certifying body for technicians out there. I like the fact that um I can earn my ASC certifications. And if I want to go from a Ford dealership to a Chevy to a Toyota, those certifications can follow me. Um, if you're at a Ford dealership and have only Ford certifications, you're kind of stuck there and you feel like you might have to start over. So uh if you want to go to an independent shop, leave the dealership world, if you have those ASC certifications, you have something you can present on a resume that says I'm certified in XYZ topic. Now, of course, your skill will always come out when you're on the shop floor. This is the same thing. I like to compare it to jujitsu, because I'm a Brazilian jiu-jitsu practitioner, a blue belt. Um, we have a belt system for ranks, right? So we have an idea when we look at somebody, their skill level. But there's times where I'll get on the mat and I will roll with another blue belt and I'll be like, this dude's a white belt, you know, because the skill always comes out on the mat, but we still have that belt system as a way of like designating like what skill level we have. And it's a way to show outwardly to people that we're not currently talking to, I have XYZ experience, I'm a professional to this capacity. And I think that's a really important thing for our industry to have, especially in a third-party concept.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I I love the way that you look at that. And I do think you've you've got a way of kind of taking a step back and looking at the industry more holistically and and really have a good way of storytelling in in a way that helps maybe put some context behind things. I will say I've had conversations with the ASE folks about maybe trying to do some of that themselves too, right? Where it take a walk behind the scenes of showing how a test is developed and and really kind of you could help yourself out there a little bit, right? Because there is so much that goes into it. And I think people would be surprised, a lot of people would be surprised in how they're developed and and really how you know they're they're trying to get to a knowledge base or understand what your knowledge base is, knowing that it's not the full story, right? Like it's a piece to the story. So then being able to have you know that credential to to state that you did something, it's similar to you know, just because you went to a four-year school doesn't necessarily mean you're even working in the field that you're in anymore, right? Or that you went to school for. Or, you know, I always like to say, like, I've seen bad lawyers that have passed the bar as well, right? Like, there's there's there's a lot of context needed when you're looking at that, but it does have some ability to uh showcase you know your no your knowledge base. And I think you've just done a nice job of bringing that story or that kind of lightning rod topic to the surface and then allowing people to have conversations when you're talking about the breakdown of 50-50. Uh I think that's a great thing, right? And I don't ever think that we should all be like maybe in agreement on everything, right? It's similar to the government and in politics. You're never gonna have everybody on the same uh same side of everything. But if we can get to the point to where we have good conversations about things, I think a lot of what our industry desires, and especially technicians, that we want that respect level, we want that professionalism or or kind of that outside perception of professionalism. A lot of what you're talking about is help driving that. Going back to your point on video MPIs, kind of the same thing there, too, right? Because you're you're looking at really uh representing yourself in a far more professional way than maybe we had in the past. And what's at the other side of that? Well, probably better pay because we can justify charging more if if we are representative of true professionals. Uh you know, I think so much of what everybody desires is on the other side of just that fight, right? And and even that conversation. Like, let's have productive conversations because it's probably going to improve your life.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, and there's give and take with everything because I mean, sometimes people might think that I'm a little wishy-washy in my content because I I try to represent both sides in all of my videos. So sometimes I'll take a strong stance in one direction, not my own personal opinions, but I'll take that strong stance to kind of spark that conversation. And my next post will be from the other perspective. And sometimes I'll melt them into the same topic. And video inspections is a good example of that because I'll talk from like, you know, the business perspective. There's a lot of great data out there that if you use video inspections on a regular basis, your customer pay repair orders can be increased by 20 to 30 percent. That tells me they work. However, I can see on the technician side when they say, Why should I have to do this? Absent any training, I have no idea how I'm supposed to do it, and you're not gonna pay me to do this. It's extra work. I have to use my own phone. I get all of those as well. So there's some give and take, right? Yes, those technicians are gonna earn more on the repair orders in terms of hours if they do effective video inspections. However, they need to be trained on how to do effective video inspections so they can actually receive those hours. I think there's something to be talked about of maybe throw them a couple of tents for those good video inspections reaching the customer and things like that. Um, so there's some back and forth. That's why I like to represent both sides because the technicians have some great points and we have to listen to them. But also upper management sometimes has some great points too. And as technicians, we have to understand those and see the big picture as well. Um, I don't remember the exact term, it's like an engineering term, but if you're watching or if you're listening, what I'm doing is I have my hands together right now and I'm pushing on each other. And when you do that, you can be more precise and accurate. We do that with opposing forces. If I'm going like this with just one hand back and forth on the screen, I can't be as accurate. But if I'm pushing on both sides, my accuracy gets very much increased. So if we have those opposing opinions conversating with each other, we can reach a much more accurate solution, which everyone will have buy-in for. So, like on the video inspection topic, technicians want a couple of tents. Okay, we can do that. Here are the standards you have to meet to get those couple of tents, and we'll talk about that in the future as we increase our customer pay. Ultimately, the dealership or shop or whoever um is gonna come ahead on that because they're increasing all their customer pay by 20 or 30 percent, and their investment in their technicians is X, Y, and Z. Um, they're gonna make more money, they're gonna make a profit anyways, and they're gonna have happy technicians, which is a super awesome thing, especially in a world where technicians aren't as easy to come by. So I like to represent both sides, get the conversation going, represent both so that they can actually have that conversation and reach somewhere in the middle, that little uh in-between uh happy space where everyone's happy.
SPEAKER_01This is an actual literal thing, too,
How the Split-Screen Skit Was Born
SPEAKER_01right? Because when you're creating your content, you are sitting on both sides of the table, quite literally, and having almost that debate or argument with yourself. I I'm always fascinated to learn like how how did you come up with that idea? And and really having the back and forth with with uh, you know, basically you've got a shadow of yourself on the other side, and it it makes for really compelling videos. So walk me through kind of the process of how you came up with that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so back in like 2021, 2022, I want to say 2021, I fell off the wagon of automotive and I went into the security business for a year, which is a wild journey. I won't be going back there. Uh, but it was an interesting like learning year. I probably had, I was only on TikTok, I probably had maybe, I don't know, 60,000 followers back then. I'm at 135,000 across all platforms. But when I left the dealership, I was like, is my social media career like done? Because I was making content based on things that happened on a daily basis in the dealership, which means I wasn't gonna have new stories to talk about anymore. So I was like, how am I gonna make content? Like I don't have an automotive job, but I still want to make this content because I think it's helpful for people. Uh, and that's when I came up with the skit idea. I was like, well, if I'm not gonna experience new stories, I have to make them up. So I started like going back through the catalog in my head of like things that have happened to me in automotive, and I started recreating those moments with some exaggeration in there and then coming up with new ones or hearing stories from people and recreating that on my channel. And it kind of turned into a thing where I do skits. I did skits for months and months and months at a time, and now I do a skit every single Friday. It's kind of like my Friday post, and then Saturday I follow up with a conversation about that skit. But that's really how I came up with it. I needed more stories in automotive, and I wasn't working in automotive at the time. So I started making them up through becoming the technician and the advisor, having a conversation on camera.
SPEAKER_01It is really interesting in how you develop that, but then also how you come up with your topics of conversation, right? And in I think you're very active in your comment section and understanding kind of the pulse of the industry as a whole, what people are concerned with, what people want to have conversations about. I I think you do that about as good as anybody and truly understanding that side of it and what needs to be talked about. I know I I was following some of your content around pay plans, right? And in flat rate versus hourly, or flat rate versus uh uh just hourly plus incentive. There it a lot of different things or a lot of different even I don't want to say misconceptions there, but maybe sometimes that's another uh another one of those topics where the negative kind of leads the narrative. And and so at least having the conversation about it, it is being brave enough to go into some of those lightning rod type of conversations and and to be on both sides of it, I think gives you kind of that even ground to where maybe you can have that productive conversation.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you know, the pay, and I appreciate you noticing that the the pay plan conversation is a good one because I I didn't realize technicians had a problem with advisors having pay plans, but they do, they had a very serious issue with it because I started seeing it in my comment sections. All the technicians were saying I should get a pay at a percentage of the parts I sell because my advisor does, so I should. And I was like, Well, I'm not, you know, I I dig it. I I'm with you on that. If you want a percentage of the parts, like I let's cut it to you, but let's also create a post on how pay plans are made. I mean, it's not like um we just add stuff to the advisor's pay plan and they make another $10,000 this year. Like there's an end state number that dealerships want their advisors to make, and they're gonna backwards engineer what metrics they pay in percentage-wise based on what the shop can actually do to reach that number. There's gonna be a cap somewhere. If you want your advisors to make $100,000, we'll start you off at a salary of $65,000 and then we'll pick three metrics and we'll do percentages that will allow you to reach that $100,000. And I said basically to the technicians, and it's just an awareness thing. If you want to be paid a percentage of your parts, this is probably how it's gonna happen. You're gonna watch your hourly rate go down a little bit, and then this other rate's gonna come up a little bit, and you're gonna be making similar money because they're gonna want you to make X, Y, and Z per year because that's how a business is run. We have an employee expense. I can tell you from my security time, like labor's expensive, so we have to keep that expense in check to make sure we're still profitable so that you can still have a job. Um, so I wanted to kind of open that up a little bit. Uh, the technicians were not wrong, right? Hey, I install these parts, I want a piece of the cake too. They're getting a piece, I want a piece. Uh, but it's an awareness thing. Oh, I didn't realize that's how pay plans are made. It's not like they're making a bunch more money than me. As a matter of fact, it's not great data, but the BLS has data that shows that technicians on average make more than service advisors. It's not great data. Um, it's all we have, though. I know, I know you guys did a really good study on how much we're working on it, but yeah, yeah, you're right, you're right. Yeah, yeah. And I think you guys have very much uh more accurate data on what technicians actually make. I'm always commenting about it, by the way.
SPEAKER_01Um we appreciate that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, Luca Lucas Underwood. Um hosts.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Lucas, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The changing the industry podcast. Great guy. I I I know Lucas well, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02He made a post the other day talking about how much technicians make on average, and he he quoted the BLS like I have in the past. I'm like, I commented right there. I'm like, hey, Ranchway has some really good updated numbers for this, and he's like, Oh, great, I'll have to check it out. So um I'm always calling that out because um that's a really good topic as well. Um, how much technicians actually make compared to how much people think they make and the wages and all that stuff. Have you ever heard of the 3030-30 rule?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I I feel like I have, but I if you ask me what it was, I don't know that I could state it off the top of my head. So I'm I'm all ears.
SPEAKER_02So the 3030-30 rule went around social media probably six months ago. Uh, the the the conception was everybody thought this, and I don't know who started it, that to be an automotive technician, you need to have thirty thousand dollars of tools, thirty thousand dollars of school debt to make thirty thousand dollars a year. That was the the thought behind.
SPEAKER_01I had not heard that. That that is that's way different than what I where I thought you were going. Uh interesting, interesting.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I I don't believe in that. I've debunked it on my I I've I'm I'm just gonna say officially I've debunked this. I don't think that's real at all. Because at the end of the day, when you start out as a technician, yes, you might make like 35k. And we can argue that that's probably a little low for how much you should be making at that level. But even if that is the number, let's just assume you are gonna make 30k this year. You don't need $30,000 of tools to change oil, because that's what you'll be doing. So that part's not there. You also don't need $30,000 of education to change oil, so that part is out as well. So while yes, your salary let's pretend it could be $30K. You don't need $60,000 to get into that though. If you get to a senior master level technician sort of thing, yeah, we could talk about more tools. I've never heard anybody ever say $30,000 in tools. Usually $10,000 is a number I see quite a lot. I don't even know if that's an accurate number overall. That'd be a good study to do as well. Um, and the education piece, you don't have to pay for the education. I I actually just recorded a post that'll go out sometime this week where it might be a good idea to do that, but you kind of have to do a cost analysis yourself. So um the 30-30-30 rule is out there, and this is the kind of stuff, this is why I make the content because this stuff just swarms around, and then everybody's like, Oh, the automotive industry is a ripoff. It's like, well, you have to kind of like take into context that you have to really kind of think this stuff through instead of just watching three seconds of a viral post and going, yep, that's that's it, that's how that works.
SPEAKER_01But it's so funny that you bring that up. We we had talked with an OEM uh partner of ours earlier this week, my co-founder Mark and I, and Mark has really unique perspective on this because he did not grow up in the industry like I did. And I think there are a lot of times where it's really beneficial to have an outsider's perspective on things, and he can't really claim to be an outsider anymore because he's been with me for six years now. But he he started off his career as a CPA, and he always talks about how it's interesting, it's fascinated him in that he he went through six years of school and still had to start off at like the bottom of the barrel and work his way up. And he goes, You're the the the automotive and and we'll put throw diesel and collision in there as well. The industries are really odd in that you send a school uh a kid off to school for a year or two, and then if they're not producing major hours within three months, you're you're frustrated and want to fire them. And he goes, I went to school for six years and started off with entry level auditing, and and there was really not a ton of expectation other to come in and work hard and learn and and get good at what you were doing, and so obviously there's expectations, but you know, those folks that go that route probably pay a lot more for their education and are still. Starting off at a really small salary, and you know, I'll look to other careers where you are starting off, even doctors, right? You're not starting off at the top, uh, pharmacists, you're not starting off at the top, you have to work your way up. And at some level, uh, this is advice that I've given to young technicians over the years is that you don't necessarily want that. You might think you want that at the time because guess what? I I want a new truck, so I want to be able to make money to to afford the car payment. Well, I think when you take a like when I look back at my career, I I often kind of think back to using that as a learning moment because I was always so eager to jump to the next thing, jump to the next thing and really kind of you know, really work my way up. But doing it in a hurry didn't do me favors, right? Because when I did get into management type positions, I probably should have spent a little bit more time behind a parts counter before I was in a fixed ops director type role, right? Like I should I should have gone through the steps a little slower. And even with that being said, you know, say you're making $18 an hour as uh, you know, a young technician, and you see another shop come to you and say, Well, we'll pay you $23 an hour. Okay, that's great. You make that jump, and I think one thing that inherently happens is that you start to really increase your expectations of what's needed out of you, the more you get paid, the more there's expectations. So, you know, I I really push for that young technician to find a shop that's going to train them up correctly, that's going to have the patience with them to develop them correctly. And, you know, if you're going to a two-year school and you're coming out, I do think it's valuable to look at that next couple of years as more education. You're you're being paid to learn then. And the more you can kind of shift your focus to that and really becoming a productive technician, the more that's going to pay off down the road because you're actually learning the right way to do things instead of just trying to jump into a high salary right off the bat. You'll do yourselves a lot of favors if you can just slow down a little bit.
SPEAKER_02I agree a hundred percent. Um
What Shops Get Wrong About New Grads
SPEAKER_02back in 2015, I got my first job as a technician at an independent shop. I got the job because it was a one-man band, two-bay operation, and he broke his arm. So he was like, if you have some technical aptitude, I'll be the eyes, you be the hands. Well, eventually he realized I had eyes and hands, and I got to do head gaskets and all my own stuff. But at the time, I was just about to graduate with my two-year associate's degree from the Pennsylvania College of Technology in automotive technology. So I went to a two-year tech school and I knew a lot of stuff. I knew all the theory, how every system worked. And my boss said, Do you know how to do brakes? And I said, I do know how to do brakes. 100% I can do brakes. And I was not lying to him. I knew how to do brakes, but he came out about 30, 45 minutes later and I'm still on one side. And he said, I thought you knew how to do brakes. I'm like, I do know how to do brakes. I just don't know how to do them very quickly. Um, so that kind of dives into expectations have to be accurate at the shop level. When you're hiring a student out of school with a degree, it's showing that they have an aptitude and a foundation for them to build from. You're not getting a senior master technician that's ready to start going on flat rate and diagnosing the most complex concerns. They don't have that level of training coming out of school. What they have is a very solid foundation of automotive theory and some hands-on experience depending on the school, and they're ready to hit the ground running, but they still need that mentorship, they still need that training, they still need that guidance, uh, and they need it in a lot of different categories that they just don't receive it in in a lot of cases. And that's why we see that turnover and that churn in that first six to 12 months because it's just not what they expected. Um, and they feel like they kind of were hung out to dry. Because I think that sometimes employers think that if you have this certification or this degree, that means you're ready to just start tearing transmissions down. And it's like that's that's not necessarily the case. Now, they could tell you if you put all the parts on a bench, they could identify them for you. But as far as being accurate in diagnostics and stuff, that still takes hands-on training and repetition to get to that point. You need to have that mentorship. And when I say training, I don't mean just helping them learn how to be quicker, quicker on a break job or how to diagnose this concern or work with these different tools. They need guidance and like financial acumen as well. I've seen so many, I'm so big on this. I watched so many lube techs straight out of college, come into the dealership I was working in and finance the biggest, nicest snap-on box you've ever seen. They can't afford to fill it. They go into debt 25, 35% APY because they got sold off a truck somewhere. And then they're like six months into it, like, I don't even know this is if this is for me. It's like, why would you finance a $30,000 box when you're making $35,000 a year? It's the same thing like when people buy cars they can't afford. Technicians kind of fall into this trap. We're like, well, I gotta have this guy's got all matching blue snap-on stuff, all matching green snap-on stuff. I've got to do that as well. I don't like my crafts craftsman ratchet wrench anymore. I gotta have the nicest thing next to it. And um, I've heard of dealerships actually creating like a list, like they'll have a list of tools. Like these are the tools that you must have as a lube tech in this dealership. Buy these, and then anything else beyond that, talk to me before you buy it. That kind of stuff is the guidance that these young people coming into the trade absolutely need. And they still need that mentorship and that hands-on training. Um, the school gives them that foundation to build from, they have a foundational knowledge. They're not off the street. They can explain to you Ohm's law and electrical theory, and they know all the components on a car and how they kind of work together and they understand how these systems work. Now they got to get their hands on it on a repetitive basis in a live shop with all the stresses that come with it to really get to that point where they're fundamentally ready to be like a flat rate tech diagnosing vehicles on a daily basis.
SPEAKER_01There's so much to unpack about what you just said there. The first being the financial education of our young people in this industry. And I will go back to what you were talking about with Lucas's post. I think a lot of what Lucas was talking about was very on point in that you we have a bit of a spending problem with young technicians. And I was in that same boat. I refer back to my own uh upbringing where when I was like 13 or 14 years old, I spent 85 bucks on a set of Mac uh screwdrivers, and I didn't need Mac screwdrivers like at all. Like that might have been the last thing I needed. I I had a craftsman set already, it was just so pointless. But you you get into this early stage, almost it's not even competition, it's that you know what, here comes here comes the candy store on wheels coming in to the shop, and you get to hop on and have conversations with those people. And oh, by the way, they'll put you on a payment plan to start off with, and you just kind of think that's the way life is. And so uh similar to you, I had seen so many stories that were really heartbreaking to me. One one of which was uh a technician that had worked for me. He had two young kids, very young family. Uh, you know, he's at the time probably 22 years old, something like that. And he had come into a really entry-level position in the dealership, was more of like a porter PDI type of person. And I walk out into the shop one day, and there's this brand new snap-on toolbox. And I knew what he was getting paid, it was not a lot of money, and I walked over and I said, What what are we doing here? Like, why would you put your family in this position where you're paying off something and you you bought some other tools to go along with it, and now you've got this really expensive debt that wasn't needed in the first place, right? And and this was a basic, you were talking about that ten thousand dollar investment. You'll hear a lot of times techs over the course of their career get a hundred thousand dollars plus in tools, but that's also the folks that have worked their tails off for 30 years that have that amount of tools. Whereas an entry-level tech, if if you're that lube tech, you only need a basic set of tools, you don't need all of that crazy stuff. And I know it's really enticing when you get the 50% off in school. And the tool companies will hate me for saying this, but I also think I'm fine with that because I would like we don't need to put people in a bad financial position. And similar to what you were talking about, I think it's a shame when you go out to Facebook Marketplace and you see this, you know, high-end toolbox that's now, you know, they're getting half of their money back on it. And they had they just spent a little time in our industry, would have understood like maybe this isn't the position for me. You know, that that was my experience growing up, right? I grew up in a shop, started working on cars, went to school to work on cars, came back, worked on more cars, and then it was like, I just like talking to people more than I like working on cars, and that's that you know, there's people that are the opposite of me, and that's totally fair and fine. But I I think with that early stage attrition piece, there's so much we could do, but that financial education of it, and the expectation a lot of times where you do see that, you know, your your role model technician that does have everything, you're almost a little jealous of it, right? And you want all the stuff that they have, but you don't want you maybe necessarily want to put in the 25 years that it took for them to get there. I just think there's so much we could do to just again slow it down a little bit. So then you're not having to jump from job to job to get that raise to even pay, you know, your your weekly monthly payment for the tool truck.
SPEAKER_02I agree. I mean, anybody that's watched my content knows I'm very hard on leadership in our industry. I always say that the automotive industry craves better leadership. And I can say that accurately because leaders have to do with people and we have a people problem in automotive because we have a massive technician shortage and we have really bad turnover rates in dealership specifically. Um, with that, we have to protect our techs, especially the new ones coming in. You mentioned somebody that was 22 years old. Now, fact check me on this stuff. It's been a while since I've read about this, but your frontal lobe in your brain is not developed until you're 25 years old. And I understand that that frontal lobe is where you can actually start to gauge out long-term critical thought. So when you're 22, you're not really thinking long term because you don't even have the capacity yet. So, and the tool companies won't like this either. I don't think I'm getting any sponsorships out of this, but I feel personally, this is me, you can agree or disagree. I think it's predatory when a tool truck rolls up on these kids and starts telling them that to succeed, you need this box and you need these wrenches and you need these screwdrivers, and I can loan them to you. It's only this much a month, like all the salesperson stuff. And uh, it puts them in a very bad bind financially. And that's just talking about your expense side. Technicians, you have to see yourself as your own personal business as long as you're on a variable type pay, because you don't know what your income is going to always be, you don't know what that number always will be, and your expenses may vary depending on what job or tool or whatever you need. So that's the expense side, but there's also education that's needed in this space for technicians to understand the income side. And what I mean by that, I'll give you an example. Um, I'll use a service advisor example, somebody I actually knew, because they're on a variable pay too. And when I say variable pay, that means that my income is going to change on a month-to-month basis or even on a week-to-peek basis, because I'm on a commission or I'm on flat rate. It's going to be fluctuating. I knew an advisor in a dealership. We had a $5,000 guarantee, $5,000 a month guaranteed. This guy was struggling to pay his mortgage. He was struggling to pay his bills. And the reason was is because he probably had a couple of good months and he started living like he was going to make that much money every single month for the rest of his life and he went beyond his means. And if you want to be stressed out, if you want to be stressed out, earn a commission to where you have to earn crazy numbers just to survive. If you want to talk about stress, that's where you go with it. So when you talk about technicians, um, you're going to have a good month, July. You're going to have a great July, right? And you're going to make probably $2,000 more this month than you have any other month. You cannot adjust your lifestyle to match your income in that one singular month. Yeah. I actually wrote about this in my book and I've had some posts about it. Um, you have to really gauge it out on a quarterly and yearly basis. You have to average out how much did I make in quarter one on average? How much did I make in quarter two on average? How much for quarter three and quarter four? And then once you get three years, how much did I make yearly on average for the last three years? And that is the number that you have to use as your foundation for you to live on. That way, your bonus money is your bonus money. You can actually afford the things that you need to afford. Um, technicians that are struggling to make it out there, um, it's self-inflicted, but it's not 100% their fault because no one's ever talked to them about this stuff, this financial stuff. You know, how do I gauge my income so I actually know what I'm making? I can kind of gauge what I'm making on a monthly basis. You have to know this to buy a house, too. Um, they're gonna want this information. So it's good to have it. And so there's an expense side and an income side. There's a lot of financial acumen that technicians could really use some mentorship and training on.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I couldn't love what you just said there more. And I I think on the opposite end for the tool company, maybe we'll make the tool companies happier on the other side of this, saying, you know, there is a time when you get so proficient as a tech where you should invest in the tools. And if it's going to make you faster as a flat rate technician, like by all means, that's an investment, then that's something that's very, very smart. You're you you've got your feet under you in the industry. Go ahead and spend on those good tools, assuming you can afford them. I do like the the bit where you're talking about the income side of this because it's the same thing that there was a study that came out probably, I don't know, 10 plus years ago about the amount of NBA players that are bankrupt after five years being out of the league. And it's because they've had this high income over the course of their career. They stop playing and the paycheck stopped coming, but they keep spending like they did when they were in the NBA, and then all of a sudden, oh no, this ran out, and I don't have any other skills to be able to make that level of money. There, there, there, it's just I think lack of human knowledge on a lot of this stuff. And I know there are a lot of conversations that talk about the education system and maybe the lack of focusing on these basic principles of survival as an adult. Uh, I couldn't agree more. Like, there should be a lot more time spent on that than maybe even like algebra, right? Like, we we should be spending more time on personal finance and and how to get a mortgage and how to get the proper insurance, how to ask the right questions, all of those basic life things that you learn oftentimes by experience and hard luck. We we could do such a better job
The Financial Traps Killing Young Careers
SPEAKER_01of that. Now, as it relates to our industry, when you talk about the need for just really good people, really good leadership, that's the stuff we're talking about. How do you guide your people so that they better understand this? I know uh something that a lot of shops are doing, and I've talked my brother's a financial advisor for uh he's got his own firm through Morgan Stanley. And we've talked about that of like going out to shops and just, you know, if if you've got a financial guy, it's not hard to ask them to come in and speak to your team, you know, maybe once a year, once a quarter, or whatever it is. But doing so in a way that's helping them long-term understand this stuff, and especially young technicians, I really wish, I really wish there was a bit of this information added to the curriculum in in education, even as it relates to our industry, because there's so much of that where you've got to understand finances, you've got to understand what you can afford and what you even need, right? At an early stage, you don't need all of all of the crazy tools that are out there. You need the core tools that are gonna help you do your job. Understand that and be okay with that. And hopefully we drive that in our cultures of our shops as well, not to expect that they're gonna spend a ton of money on on tooling right off the bat because it's just not smart.
SPEAKER_02No, and I mean that's that's 100% accurate. And for the leaders out there in automotive, there is an ROI here. And I'll use an example from the military. So um, when I was in command of a unit, I had 141 soldiers that I had to care for. And part of your responsibility as a leader in the army is your soldiers' finances. Now we can dig a little deeper in the army, there's a little more uh openness and the control there, but um, there's financial guidance that occurs. And the reason for that is is you do serious stuff in the army, and I need your head right. And if your head isn't right because of personal finances, we're going to fix that because we have to fix that because I need you to perform. So, not as serious and automotive, but it is still serious because we don't want wheel-offs and we don't want people unsafe. There's car seats in the back of these vehicles. So we need to have our technicians in a headspace where they're doing good work and double checking their work and feeling confident and all that kind of stuff. Um, technicians who are distracted by personal finance problems are technicians that miss things like torquing lug nuts and double checking those brake pads and making sure I check those wiper blades and things like that. And those are all safety issues. So the ROI is you're gonna have a much more thorough and more productive set of technicians because they're not plagued by all these financial nightmares that they might have walked into in their early years. The worst thing to do as a technician is hit the ground your first day, your second day, and your first year and create a financial mess for yourself. And then you're trying to dig your way out of that for the next five to 10 years of your career. And then whatever, we're burnout, we're getting out of the industry, we have a sour taste in our mouth, we have turnover issues, and we have technicians who are missing steps because they're stressed out about stuff at home, rightfully so, uh, because we really kind of preyed on that a little bit and uh had them over-leverage themselves for certain things they don't need. But uh with a little bit of guidance, uh, we can help overcome that for these young technicians. We got to protect them. They're not sticking around. We got to protect them because we need them to fill the boots who are now leaving the industry. That's where our gap is, is right there in the middle. We have a lot of senior techs and we have a lot of brand new techs. We need those brand new techs to stick around and fill in those senior roles when they leave. Um, otherwise, we won't we won't have anybody to mentor the next generation. We'll really be hurting for some time. Um, so yeah, it's not all about just can I diagnose a car and turn a wrench and all these things and make my hours. There's a lot of other skills that technicians need and guidance that they need uh to be successful in this industry.
SPEAKER_01Every shop, dealership, and business in our industry depends on great technicians. Between the technician shortage, disconnected school relationships, and lack of trustworthy workforce data, it makes it difficult for shops to plan, hire, and grow. That's where ASC Connects comes in. Created in partnership with Renchway, ASC Connects is a membership designed specifically for shops like yours to help you build a stronger technician pipeline by connecting with schools, empowering you with tools and data to improve your recruiting, retention, and performance. With ASC Connects, you can connect with local schools through school assist, start building relationships, and support the programs that educate our future technicians. You can also access verified data on technician pay, benefits, and labor rates through the industry data exchange so you know how your shop compares locally and nationally. Lastly, you can get proven strategies for leadership, employee development, and shop management through members-only guides, templates, and events. Join ASC Connects to strengthen your workforce and build a stronger, smarter shop. Learn more at wrenchway.com slash solutions slash shops or follow the link in the show notes.
Leading the Whole Person
SPEAKER_01What do you think our role is from a leadership perspective? On you you talked about the personal finance side, but I feel like there are other opportunities. I I go back to Dave Ramsey's book, Entre Leadership, and he in his book talked about really being selective up front with who he'd bring on his team, right? And specific to leadership, he uh I I've I've used this practice that he preached in the book of uh when I hire somebody trying to take uh not only the the individual that I'm working on hiring, but their significant other out to dinner. And this might relate more to that more experienced person, but that's been a really productive thing for me to get to know the the other side of that person, right? So if you can take them out to dinner uh as a couple, you can learn a lot about them as a whole, right? And and not necessarily trying to dig for bad things, you're just more so trying to get to know them and understand if they're gonna fit your culture. But there's also that fine line of like, you don't want to overstep your bounds, right? Like you don't want to step into their personal life and be nosy. I'm always super aware of that, or I try to be anyway. I I want them to have their home life be their home life, and a lot of times it's not my business. But I also want to make sure that when I'm bringing somebody onto a team that I have, that they have that stability at home and that they they aren't going to be kind of that roller coaster because I've had really good employees that have a struggle at home and it's like a constant roller coaster ride. And it's hard to have that that consistency within the business if you're kind of riding that roller coaster. So I I'm curious your thoughts on like what leadership's role on the personal side because it does impact so much on the work side.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you do have to walk a fine line here because you don't want to overstep any boundaries. But um a good first step is just talking to your people on a more regular basis. Um, I did that white paper uh forever ago. It was like two or three. It's 2023, I want to say it came out. And one of the things that we found in that white paper was um data that supported that managers were hiring people and then walking away. Um basically uh leaders were asked, I think the question was, do you know if your technicians are motivated and do you know if they communicate well? And the most popular response on that from leaders was neutral, meaning I don't know. So I had to ask myself, how do you know if your team is motivated and if they communicate well? Well, I talk to them and I talk about different topics and see what gets them fired up and I listen to their responses. That gauges to me how well they are at communicating and how motivated they are. So the fact that leaders don't know this information and they admit it as much on a survey tells me that they're not communicating with their team. So that's step one. Communicate with your team. Get to know your people, get to know their personality, their mannerisms. Like I am a very sarcastic guy. I like to crack jokes and stuff. If you notice at week or at work next week or the next following weeks that I am not like that anymore, there's probably something going on. That might be a good entry point, be like, Paul aside, hey, you've been a little different lately. Everything good? And you need anything? Can I help you with anything? Those little questions go a long, long way. Even if that person lies and says no, there's a nugget in the back of their mind that says they noticed and they cared. And that goes a long way with these team members. So that's step one is opening that communication by just getting to know your people, understand them, and just pay attention and check in maybe on a weekly basis, on a one-on-one, or take the time to do that. Um, many managers might say, Oh, I don't have time to meet with everybody one-on-one. Well, as a leader, people are your responsibility. So if you want to actually follow up on that responsibility, let's get engaged with the people, is what I would say. Uh, it's super important. That would be step one for me. And I think that you'll feel a natural proclivity to really see it through from there.
SPEAKER_01I think you're spot on. The so much of leadership is kind of, I feel like, understanding when something's off, right? Uh, in if uh I I've I've talked to a lot of shops over the years that had a high producing technician, uh, really good technician, kind of fall off the charts and start making mistakes they wouldn't normally make. And, you know, I think there's some level of frustration in the past, I think this has gotten better. In the past, I think the first impulse for a lot of leaders was like, Well, I gotta let this person go because they're just not they're not performing what they what they used to, and and they're just kind of falling off a cliff. But where I think our industry has gotten better is is now to say, something's off. I, you know, as a person, I just want to make sure they're okay. And I think by changing that step in your mind from going from the instant, well, I need to get rid of this person to I need to check in with this person and just have a good, honest conversation and in a way that's not threatening. I I think a lot of times if you can reach out and just be that shoulder for that person to cry on a little bit, right? And and to uh a lot of a lot of folks have a lot of pressures at home and it really carries a lot of weight. And I've had specific examples of that where you don't even know that somebody's going through a divorce, right? And it comes out in just general conversation that hey, I'm going through a tough time and uh you know my wife and I are splitting up. Well, of course you're not going to be on point. Your your head is probably going in a million different directions. And when you kind of sit back and talk to that person on an individualized basis, you know, I I'm a huge fan of leaders taking their people to lunch, right? Because it's a way to get them out of the shop in a setting where it is a little bit more relaxed. And maybe you can learn about that stuff. Again, you're not digging for negatives, but more so you're just trying to build that relationship with your team. And we see it in a lot of the data that we get back, right? One of the really common complaints about our industry is that people feel like they're a number. They don't feel like they're, you know, they're valued by management, they don't feel like there's communication. And what I try to talk to leaders about when I have those conversations is, you know, it's not their responsibility to drive that conversation. From a leadership perspective, you have to hunt for those conversations. You have to be able to drive that that communication because it it shouldn't be on that person's uh shoulders to have to drive that conversation. You as a leader need to drive that. You're responsible for driving that. And I think the more leaders leaders can really kind of understand that piece that you know you're the one that is responsible for that. Uh the more luck you're gonna have with retention, the more luck you're gonna have with just staff happiness as a whole, the the better your culture is going to be because you understand your people. Everything that you're saying is on point because I think that's a lot of what's what's missing in our industry.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it comes down to one skill for for leaders to implement to achieve everything that you just said. And I'll I'll use my mortgage as a way to explain this. So when we're negotiating our closing mortgage on this house that I'm in right now, um, I used a tactic of silence. Like they would shoot me a number and I just wouldn't respond. And then 24 hours later, they'd shoot me another number and it was better, and I wouldn't respond. And one time I just forgot to respond. They shot me an even lower number. And like my wife and I had a number we'd be comfortable with, and we came in pretty low below that because I just stopped responding. Uh, so it's a negotiation tactic. That's not what I'm saying we need to do to technicians, but silence is a really powerful thing. So silence and listening go hand in hand. Listen and silent are actually spelled with the exact same letters. It's a really cool thing because it's so accurate. Uh, and what I mean by that is if you can increase your ability to listen, don't preach to your people. If you take them out to lunch, don't preach to them. I want you to do this, and my career has been that, and you could reach this if you did this. Like there's a time and place for that. But sometimes you just got to let them talk. And maybe it's about the most mundane thing. I like to take my dogs on walks and all this stuff. The more you listen, the more they become comfortable with you. And the more they become comfortable with you, the more they will share with you. So if you really want to start to kind of dig into that stuff without prying, listen because they will eventually feel comfortable enough where they will share those things with you so that you can actually say, Would you like me to help you with that? I might be able to do X, Y, and Z to get you back on the right path here. So I think that that would be a very powerful way for leaders to get engaged. And it's really easy. All you have to do is be quiet and listen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, be quiet. Uh my wife would tell you that's very difficult for me to do. So I say that's probably the hardest piece of advice I'll get. Uh but I I think the other important element is not just to do that when there's an area of concern, right? Because if you get into that habit where maybe you're taking them to lunch or you're doing you, you're having your one-on-one meetings, but if it's only the meetings around somebody not being productive or something being off, something being wrong, you're not going to build that relationship that you're you're desiring, right? You you you need to get in a consistent pattern. And it's hard, right? With with all the directions that you're pulled at uh from in this industry, and I I'm I'm sure I'm not alone in that. I feel spread thin a lot of times where you're like, oh my goodness, how are we gonna keep up with all this stuff? But it's also something that maybe pushes you to grow and try to figure out different ways to have those conversations. Uh again, going back to my my lunch story, that's one of the areas where I I've have a lot of impact, I feel like, because you can sit down in a time where Chris, you're the same way as I am, where your day gets booked out every day and it's like Zoom meeting after Zoom meeting after Zoom meeting or Teams meeting, whatever it is. And it's hard to kind of disconnect from your computer and have just a good conversation with somebody. So if if you have those pockets of time, I know a lot of folks, I I haven't done this and I wish I'd do it better. Go meet one of your team members for coffee some morning before work, or you know, do something that's a little out of the ordinary, but then make it ordinary. Uh, really, really kind of try, you know, if you're focused on ways to drive those conversations, uh, whatever works best in your life, like I I can almost guarantee you're gonna be better off because of it.
SPEAKER_02I agree. And I mean, those like off the wall, like just like the random, like, hey, let's grab coffee uh before work, like the you three techs, and then next week it'll be you three techs, and we'll just do that, and maybe we'll grab lunch later on, you, me, and this person. And those are great for just like bonding, right? Because we're just gonna talk about everything that's not work-related. You know what I mean? Like this weekend, I'm taking the boat out. Oh, you have a boat. I like boats, you know, like that kind of stuff. Um, but you know, adding some structure to the one-on-one conversations when it is more work related is something you can do as well. Um, for example, you might talk about their performance last month, the performance you're hoping for this month. Call out three things that you loved about last month, call out one thing to work on and give them some details on how they can work on that. And then also have a section for issues and concerns. Anything bothering you? Everything good? Do you need anything? Are you noticing any bottlenecks on your end? And open the floor to them. Um, that's just like the one-on-one conversation, like the work-related stuff. But if you do that stuff outside of it as well, that's where that comfort builds in. That's where you get to know the person more. You mentioned earlier, Jay, they felt like numbers. Um, they feel like numbers when you try to push them into a spreadsheet, which is what managers do. They manage numbers, but leaders deal with people. It's much less tangible. And people are people with lives and things and interests and hobbies and work-life balance and all that stuff. And if you want to tap into that, you have to get outside of the shop, outside of the dealership, outside of the collision center, and have coffee, have lunch, do those things. I think that's a really powerful way to do it. Uh, I had a manager that used to take me to lunch every now and again. The conversations we had were almost never related to work, you know, and that's how you get to know each other, you become more comfortable with each other. And then once that comfort's there, that's when they're gonna bring those issues to your attention so you can take action as a leader to solve them because that's what you do. You get out of their way, you solve the problem, you remove the roadblock and get out of their way and let them go back to producing. That's what they need to do. You got to open the doors for them to walk through. Um, that's your job as a leader. You support them with that.
SPEAKER_01Uh, uh it's such good advice. And I I we should take a minute to talk about your work with Rock Ed as well, because I I think uh so much of what you've done in trying to educate folks. I know your role's changed a little bit here, but I I I do I had the pleasure, and I think this is the first time we've done a podcast since I came out to New York with you and recorded some content for Rock Ed. And the amount of learning available through through the app and through everything that you're doing, and uh huge compliment to you because I I learned a lot going out there and ability to read scripts, right? Because I'm uh that is not a strength of mine at all. And so you you've just become such a professional at it that uh I I definitely took a lot out of that trip and and just really enjoyed my time out there. But uh uh tell us a little bit about uh what you what you've got going on with Rocket right now.
SPEAKER_02Well, I appreciate that, Jay. And you did a phenomenal job, by the way, uh with that comment.
SPEAKER_01It's harder than it looks, isn't it?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it is. It is a skill. I mean, the anyone who uh who's on the Rocket app, the very first stuff I ever recorded for Rocket is on there, and it's not my best look. So if you want to see some really raw, unskilled stuff, like I did really, in my opinion, I didn't do great, uh, just comparing it to what I could do now because I've done so many. Um, but that content in specific was that ASE test prep collection. And that's you know, that's that's what Rocket does is we take topics and we break it down into micro learning, one to three minute videos. No one's sitting down and watching a 15-minute YouTube video on how to do something anymore. They fast forward to the part they need and they get out. Um, you know, I if I can show you the analytics on my TikTok and my Instagram and stuff, most people don't watch half of the video. They watch the first 10 or 15 seconds and leave a comment. I can always tell when that's you because I started out one way and ended another, and then it's like, ah, you didn't watch the whole video. Um, so the attention spans are different. The way people learn nowadays are different, and that's what we aim to do is bring a modern way to learn to dealership professionals and as well as technicians now. So ASE test prep, and uh we talk about all the different ways to communicate repairs to customers. We have our video inspection certification. It's the only one out there, by the way. No one else has like a certification that I'm aware of for video inspections, a very new skill that requires all these different things for you to be able to do, like videography and communication and customer service. Like, let's work on those things. And it only cost you maybe five to ten minutes of your day. I know technicians are scrolling TikTok in their base because they're commenting on my post. So why not take a few minutes to watch a video that can actually help you upskill yourself in the Rocket app, uh, which is the really cool aim of that. And of course, as you know, Jay, we've opened that up to students across the United States, tech school students. And we've seen that. That's a really cool program with that, yes. Ah, it's so cool. And the the best part for me is I there's been a lot of students that have earned certifications through Rocket. They can now add it to their resume. There's there's students that are certified, and True Video is is is endorsing this certification, and they're one of the biggest ones in the game when it comes to video inspections. They are receiving a inspection or inspection, a certification on video inspections endorsed by True Video before they get into their first shop. And that's a very modern thing that technicians have to do nowadays. So they're learning things that are modern, that there's not a lot of training available for before they even get their first job. And it's just so cool to see these technicians, these young technicians who haven't even started yet earning these certifications optionally. They don't have to do it on the Rocket app. It's it's it's so awesome to see. And I really hope to see some really good benefits. I'm sure we will see some really good benefits from that. Because the whole aim is, like we talked about with the financial acumen, we talked about with the leadership aspect, everything is really aimed at improving technician lives and keeping them in industry and making this industry a better place for all. Um, and it and it affects everybody in the United States, if you think about it, because everyone drives a car for the most part, right? And we want those cars to be safe. So we need to have good technicians out there, and it all starts uh with these students who are at least interested in automotive. Um, we have to take that interest and turn it on fire and keep them in there. And training is one of the many ways we can do that. Modern ways to train is another way we can do that, and that's what Rocket really does with our app.
SPEAKER_01Well, I think that's where you and I hit it off so early on was just I think we we have a shared passion for seeing the industry move into a a more positive direction, and you're doing a phenomenal job with it. Now, I do have to end the show. I don't think we've done this with you yet. So I we have three quick hitting questions for you that I did not prepare prepare prepare you for at all. Uh and I apologize for that, but they're pretty easy. So I will uh I'm gonna lay uh three questions on you. The first one is what was your first car?
SPEAKER_02My first car. So the first car I ever received, or the first car I bought myself?
SPEAKER_01Either. I'll let you go either direction you want to there.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I'll do the first car I ever bought myself because it was my favorite one. I bought it with my basic training money coming out of the army, and I bought it from my brother. Uh, the reason why this is my favorite vehicle, it's a red F-150 2001 standard shift. Uh, I got so much history with this truck. And the history with this truck is a guy who is now my uncle, he married my aunt. He wasn't my uncle at the time, was my first boss when I was 14 years old.
SPEAKER_01No way.
SPEAKER_02Yes. So, and I he was not dating my aunt at the time. We never knew this was gonna happen. Welcome to the family. Dude's name is Judd. Uh, he gave me a job working uh as uh um excavation. So I was digging ditches and I was running excavators and pouring gravel and all this stuff. And what's significant about this truck is he pulled into my driveway. And now I was a kid, so I thought he was gonna give me like 20 bucks, and he handed me $400 over the hood of this truck. And I was like, oh wait, I did a week of work. Like I did like I was, you know, I was a kid and I worked a lot of hours and I got paid a ton of money and I realized hard work pays off. And I realized that over the hood of this truck. So when I got home from basic training and realized my brother had now owned it and was selling it, I'm like, I gotta buy this truck. So I did. Um, so it was a red F-150, it was a two-door. Um, the frame snapped in half one day at the gas station. I had to fix it. I built a flatbed on that thing. It looked like a front porch. I took it to the drive-in that very night. It was awesome. And uh yeah, the rest of history with that one was an awesome oh, what a story!
SPEAKER_01That is uh that is incredible. All right. Second question is are you a morning or night person? Morning. One of the things I could have morning. I could have I could have called that out uh even before I asked that question.
SPEAKER_02I am a morning, even it drives my wife nuts. She's like, sometimes I just want to wake up and you're there. I'm like, I get it, but I'll set my alarm on Sunday when I have nothing to do until the family wakes up. It's just I I love mornings. Um, evenings I will be there, but I'll probably be asleep by 8:30, 9 o'clock if my daughter allows it. So that's that's kind of how it goes for me.
SPEAKER_01Smart man. Uh, last one, favorite type of food.
SPEAKER_02Favorite type of food. That's a tough one. Um I would have to go with Mexican food 100%. Nashville ruined me with that. We had such great Mexican food in Nashville. If it came off a truck, it was like just fire. It was incredible. Um, we we make tacos once night once a week in this house. And my wife will tell you I drive her nuts. I love salsa. I love salsa so much. She'll buy a jar of salsa and uh we'll make tacos like next week. And she's like, Where's that jar of salsa? Like, I ate it the whole jar uh last week. So um I love a sweet pineapple salsa, it's amazing, and it's like the the chip is just a vehicle. I'll eat it by the spoonful. So Mexican food for me.
SPEAKER_01I I I will say I think that's our most popular type of food uh for uh since we started asking that question. So uh totally agree with you. I'm on the same page with the salsa stuff. Uh absolutely love it and absolutely love having you back on again. What a fun conversation, per usual. We always have great conversations and just uh hope to see you continue to grow everything that you're doing because you're doing a phenomenal job at it and it's having such a positive impact on the industry. And and uh just a real pleasure to call you, my friend, and and love everything you're doing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and likewise, before you close it out, Jay, I got to give you your flowers as well. Because I gotta say, Renchway, ASC, your organizations, uh, you guys give me so much to talk about. Like that voice of the technician report you put out for 2026, like a ton of my content came from that. Uh and it did really, really well. And when I talk about technician pay, I'm constantly sourcing stuff that you guys put out. The work that you're doing just in data, data that our industry so sorely needs, is so important. Like I dabble in it. I'm not a professional in data. I have a small following I can kind of reach out to, but you guys have so many schools and techs and dealerships and shops across the United States that you can tap into and really pull some significant data from. And it's data our industry needs because that's a foundation from where which we create solutions from. So uh keep it coming because I think it's super interesting. But at the same time, that fuels a lot of the content I make is I I'll fall back on that. You know, when somebody says X, Y, and Z about the industry, I'm like, well, here is a study that shows that that's actually not the case, and this is the case, and maybe you should think about that. And uh, it really drives that conversation forward. So I just I had to let you know that because um especially that report you did, the the voice of the technician, they they need a voice, and uh that that particular study really provided it. So um kudos to you guys.
SPEAKER_01Well, on behalf of our entire team, thank you for that. That's why we do it, right? We're we're really trying to set the stage on productive conversations across the industry and and and really again in hopes that we're driving it uh it constantly forward, that we're trying to move the industry forward. And and uh that doesn't happen without great people like you. So uh appreciate you being back on. I'm sure this won't be the last time. I'm sure I I sure as heck hope that it's not the last time. Uh we'll uh we'll have you back on. It always a fun conversation, and thanks you. Thanks for being on.
SPEAKER_02No, anytime. Thanks, Jay.
SPEAKER_01That wraps up another episode of Beyond the Wrench. If you like this episode, please show your support by rating and following the podcast. You can also watch the video interviews on Wrenchway's YouTube channel. Speaking of Wrenchway, Beyond the Wrench is managed and produced by the Wrenchway team. Wrenchway is dedicated to promoting and improving careers in the automotive, diesel, and collision industries. In partnership with ASE, we run the ASE Connects community, which empowers shops and dealerships with reliable data, school connections, and industry insights while helping grow the future technician workforce. You can learn more by visiting wrenchway.com. Thank you so much for listening. We'll see you next week.